Contact Consortium: Bylaws

The Contact Consortium
Oworld list digest: Early dialogue on the list

Dear OWorld Mailing List,

Welcome to the list, set up for discussions about the building of an open,
modern, extensible, multi-user virtual world platform that can support
biological metaphors, rich simulation and other functions, OWorld.
Biota.org, a special interest group of the Contact Consortium, has been
building biologically inspired virtual worlds platforms. The first
platform, Nerve Garden, was debuted at SIGGRAPH 97 (see
http://www.biota.org). See a paper about nerve garden at:
http://www.biota.org/papers/ngalife.htm
OWorld is a discussion of a new multi user virtual world platform capable
of supporting worlds with biological metaphors. This project was initiated
and discussed at Digital Biota2, the second annual conference on
cyberbiology (http://www.cyberbiology.org).
Some questions to consider
1) Nerve Garden was built with Java and VRML, would we build OWorld this
way, with Java3D, with a custom renderer or what?
2) What do you need a multi user virtual world with biological metaphors
for? How could you use ecosystem metaphors to make rich, deliverable
virtual world experiences?
3) There are many virtual worlds platforms out there: active worlds,
blaxxun, gaming platforms like Ultima Online, open efforts like open
community, the continuum, what would the OWorld platform offer that these
dont, especially in the area of simulation? See
http://www.digitalspace.com/avatars/ for an exhaustive listing of virtual
worlds platforms.
Another list discussing the uses of such a platform can be found at the
DS-NASA pages at http://www.digitalspace.com/nasa/
Your thoughts?
Bruce.. and now see:
Avatars 98
To get more experience of virtual worlds in action, participate in Avatars 98
Avatars 98, the Contact Consortium's third annual conference, is going
ahead and it will be held *inside virtual world cyberspace* and
simultaneously at physical locales all around the world during a single 24
hour period: November 21st, 1998.
We have garnered a wide range of support so far, including several
corporate sponsors, exhibitors, and physical locations willing to host
their own events and "jack in" to the event online (all around northern
california including "the farm" here in boulder creek, austin texas,
milwaukee, london, austria, helsinki, toronto, australia, south africa, and
so on).
I am sure that the VWLang themes will be featured during live discussions.
As a SIG of the Consortium, you will have your own exhibit area reserved.
If you would like to be involved in building the virtual world spaces,
being a discussion leader inside a world, exhibiting at the virtual trade
show, helping with web or logistics, or hosting an event in your locale or
inside cyberspace, please contact us at:
avatars98@ccon.org
If you want news of the event, sign up on the AVATARS98 mailing list at:
http://www.ccon.org/lists/avatars98.html
The brief conference announcement page is at:
http://www.ccon.org/conf98/index.html
(there will be much more news soon!)
Get ready to make some more Cyberspace history in just two months!
Bruce Damer
Sept 20, 1998

++ The Contact Consortium ++
A Forum for Contact, Culture and Community in Digital Space
Visit us at: http://www.ccon.org
/- Living, Learning and Working in Virtual Worlds -/

Hi everyone (?)
I know it's generally considered bad practice to send "test" messages
to mailing lists, but I've never been one to take much notice of that
sort of thing.
Have I missed anything important since the list was first set up?
Glenn.
--
Dr. Glenn Proctor Future Technologies Group BT Laboratories
Admin 2 PP5, BT Laboratories, Martlesham Heath, Suffolk IP5 3RE.
Tel +44 (0)1473 642405 Fax +44 (0)1473 647410 gproctor@info.bt.co.uk
Hi to you!
You may see me during the next fortnight, Im visiting Paul Marrow and
Hyacinth Nwana on Wednesday 7 October to talk about an application for AI
and AL, to assist biodiversity.
See you there?
Paul Sinnadurai
----------
> From: Glenn Proctor <gproctor@info.bt.co.uk>
> To: oworld@lists.best.com
> Subject: oworld: Greetings
> Date: 24 September 1998 10:16
>
> Hi everyone (?)
>
> I know it's generally considered bad practice to send "test" messages
> to mailing lists, but I've never been one to take much notice of that
> sort of thing.
>
> Have I missed anything important since the list was first set up?
>
> Glenn.
>
> --
> Dr. Glenn Proctor Future Technologies Group BT Laboratories
> Admin 2 PP5, BT Laboratories, Martlesham Heath, Suffolk IP5 3RE.
> Tel +44 (0)1473 642405 Fax +44 (0)1473 647410 gproctor@info.bt.co.uk
Dear OWorld Mailing List,
Gerald de Jong and I have been having meetings inside Active World worlds
and conversation always does seem to drift to parameters for an open
source, java3D based world platform.
I thought this would help juice our discussions. It might be a good start
to introduce ourselves. I am Bruce Damer, of the Contact Consortium and
whom many of you met at Digital Biota 2. Details about me are at www.damer.com
Bruce
Oct 11, 1998
(Strucky is Gerald, Digi is me)
Edited for easier reading.. Totoro of the Struck list was also present.
Strucky: a Java3D/OpenGL virtual world would really free things up.
Strucky: java as DNA, OpenGL & native code as phenotype. :)
DigiGardener: yes, the U washignton team built one in 3 months
(called the virtual playground, I will be there at the HIT Lab Tuesday)
Strucky: you mentioned that. do you have links? are they Open Source?
what are their plans?
DigiGardener: just a research project, not open source
DigiGardener: i will be there tues-thursday
Strucky: it would be a perfect candidate for Open Source! i'd contribute,
for one. Hanging out with the Amigos, i realized the degree to which their
ambitions are limited by the decisions made by the builders. Give clever
people all over the planet an opportunity to improve the technical
contents, and it'll truly blossom. the whole open source thing is about
community, and so is the virtual world thing. it would seem a perfect
match, and should theoretically work _better_ than most open source efforts
because of that.
DigiGardener: yes, this would be the very best medium for that kind of an
effort
Strucky: i've become convinced that Darwinian principles will quickly lead
to an open source future for virtual worlds.
Strucky: a virtual world client should become a standard part of RedHat,
for example. just like Netscape is bundled.
DigiGardener: yes, you know what, this is exactly the kind of discussion
that we could stoke the oworld list with
DigiGardener: are you on the list?
Strucky: i'm on the oworld list, yes.
Strucky: something like a headstart from the group at UW would really get
the ball rolling (downhill, accelerating).
DigiGardener: yes, maybe could you post a set of these issues to oworld?
DigiGardener: i can promote the list to UW
Strucky: i'll post something to the list this week if time permits.
DigiGardener: ok
end.

++ The Contact Consortium ++
A Forum for Contact, Culture and Community in Digital Space
Visit us at: http://www.ccon.org
PO Box 66866, Scotts Valley CA USA 95067-6866

/- Living, Learning and Working in Virtual Worlds -/

At 06:08 PM 10/11/98 -0700, Bruce wrote:
>Gerald de Jong and I have been having meetings inside Active World worlds
>and conversation always does seem to drift to parameters for an open
>source, java3D based world platform.
the Open Source movement (rather offensive to the people who have been
involved since the beginning when it had much less catchy names) is a very
social phenomenon. similarly, the virtual worlds movement is very much a
social phenomenon. it would seem blatantly obvious that virtual worlds
based on open source represents the future of media. it is almost too
obvious to mention, unless i've become a victim of a huge illusion. i'm not
one of the most gullible, at least i like to think so.
then one more key thing: for this stuff to really be impressive, there must
be mobile code. java bytecode has become the de facto mobile code standard.
it couldn't be more clear: open source java will eventually dominate. does
anyone have doubts?

---
Gerald de Jong, Beautiful Code B.V.
Rotterdam, The Netherlands
http://www.beautifulcode.nl
OWorld list, take a look at Robert Bjarnason's JavaMOO below, an example of
a Java multi user space with MOO lineages, Java3D, VRML and flash hooks..
very interesting.. give it a try!
PS: Avatars98 is one month away, get signed up on newsfeed and join us for
the largest ever avatar event in cyberspace.. see:
http://www.ccon.org/conf98
Bruce
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 21:38:54 +0100
From: Robert Bjarnason <robofly@this.is>
Subject: ANN: JavaMoo alpha 3
JavaMoo alpha 3
This is primarily a Moo client using VRML97, HTML and/or Flash to
describe how Moo objects look like. We intend to use this system
for developing multi-user role-playing games and educational
applications for the Internet.
Features
* Client for LambdaMoo (Moo stands for MUD (Multi-user Dungeons &
Dragons) Object Oriented)
* Java3D support
* VRML97 support for worlds and avatars using the VRML97Loader class
* Multi-user position support for avatars using ip-multicast
* GNU copyright (full source code included)
History
JavaMoo was born on 1. April 1998 as an Java applet to work in a
(HTML) Browser with a VRML plugin and using the VNet multi-user
avatar system. Next JavaMoo evolved into using Flash applets to
describe the Moo spaces in a cartoon like fashion. Now after attending
(remotely) a Java3D presentation @ the VRML LA User Group - I decided
to make an Java3D version, and here it is.
Róbert Viðar Bjarnason
robofly@this.is
http://this.is/javamoo/

- --Installation
Download
For the client download:
JDK1.2beta4 from http://developer.java.sun.com
Java3Dbeta2 from http://developer.java.sun.com
VRML97beta2 from http://developer.java.sun.com
JavaMoo from http://this.is/javamoo
If you have Win32 system you can select between an opengl and
a direct3d version, please use the opengl version because of some
nasty rendering bugs in the direct3d implementation.
For the server download and install:
LambdaMoo from ftp://ftp.lambda.moo.mud.org/pub/MOO/
Install
Install JDK1.2
Install Java3D
Install VRML97
Use the policytool to set networks access for the internet host
and.this.is and the ipmulticast.
Uncompress the javamoo.zip archive somewhere
type:
cd javamoo
java Moo
- --User guide (well...)
Login
You login by typing create <username> <password> into the textfield
at the bottom of the screen. This will create you as an user.
Use @gender <neuter,male,female,either,plural,egotistical,royal,...>
to set your gender
Use @describe me as <hmm...>
3D Movement
Left mouse button: turns you around
Right mouse button: up&down and slide
Alt+Left mouse button: walk and turn
Moo Space Movement
You use standard english/... like lingo: "north", "south", "east",
"west" ... depending on names of the Moo spaces.
Communications
say("), whisper, page, emote, gag, whereis, who, ...
Manipulation
get, drop, give, put, look, inventory, ...
Building
@dig, @create, @recycle, @quota, @count, @audit, @classes, @realm,
@move, @descibe, @show, @list, @edit ...
Mail
@mail, @read, @next, @prev, @send, @answer, @forward, ...
News
@rn, @subscribe, @skip, @unsubscribe, ...
javaMoo commands (not part of the original LambdaMoo core)
connect object to URL
vconnect object to VRML97 URL
vconnects object to IP multicast channel
vconnectp object to IP multicast channel port
- --How to create your own 3D Moo space
first drop me a note @ robofly@this.is and I´ll authorize you as a
programmer
then, type the following commands into the textfield at the bottom of
the screen:
@dig My First Moo Space
<this output will be generated by the Moo:
My First Moo Space (#objectnr) created.
<Write down the #objectnr because that is *the* reference to your
<space, now keep on typing
@move me to #objectnr
vconnect #objectnr to http://url.for.your.vrml.file/file.wr*
vconnects #objectnr to x.x.x.x (an legal multicast channel)
vconnectp #objectnr to xxxx (an legal multicast port)
@describe #objectnr as A happy space with sounds of seagulls in the
distance.
@move me to #62
@move me to #objectnr
<now your VRML97 scene should be loading, note: the VRML97Loader class
has
<limited VRML97 support and will crash the javaMoo upon unsupported tags
- --Known bugs/limitations
Sometimes when you mess around with the JSplitPanes you get
some Swing related errors.
The html and flash part of the system are not included in this
version.
All viewpoints are loaded but there is not yet a mechanism for
changing between them. You will always enter the scene @ the first
described viewpoint in the VRML97 file.
When you move up or down in a 3D scene you will always be
transformed back to the initial ground level when you go forward again.
The avatars 3D positions are centered in the middle.
The Inventory panel is not activated until you first type in the
i*nventory Moo command.
The source code is a kind of a hack. Not very well commented and some
unused objects here and there.
The TTL for the ipmulticast channel is hard coded to 10, I´ll add
another Moo command to set this options for objects.
Our host and.this.is is not on a very large Internet connection.
JavaMoo has only been tested on a Windows98 system not any Sun
hardware.
- --Tips
Use DEF AVATAR for the root Transform for you avatar if you are
using your own.
To change your avatar, type: connect me to
http://the.url.of.your.avatar/file.wr*
You will have to move between spaces to active the change. (will be
fixed)
Type "home" into the textfield to return to the main "hub" VRML
scene.
Use @bug, @typo, @idea to report to the Wizard.
Use @gripe to send complaints to the Wizard.
end.

++ The Contact Consortium ++
A Forum for Contact, Culture and Community in Digital Space
Visit us at: http://www.ccon.org
PO Box 66866, Scotts Valley CA USA 95067-6866

/- Living, Learning and Working in Virtual Worlds -/

At 01:44 PM 10/22/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Robert, JavaMOO looks really interesting.. would you like to connect it
>into the upcoming Avatars98 event?
>See www.ccon.org/conf98 for details. I will post this to the oworld, open
>world platform discussions at www.ccon.org/lists you are welcome to join in!
>
>Gerald, take a look..
>
>Bruce
looks really wonderful, Bruce. i'm downloading and i'll be trying it all out.

---
Gerald de Jong, Beautiful Code B.V.
Rotterdam, The Netherlands
http://www.beautifulcode.nl
holy shit, Bruce, this Java3D stuff really works! this is the first time
i've experienced it firsthand. i think we can safely predict that
in a few years this approach will dominate, at least if enough people
clue into the potential of mobile code.
now i'm determined to dive into this java3d stuff bigtime!

---
Gerald de Jong, Beautiful Code B.V.
Rotterdam, The Netherlands
http://www.beautifulcode.nl
<html>
Gerald, its true, Java3D may be the ultimate virtual worlds platform, and you should get in touch with the folks at the HIT Lab who built the virtual playground, Bruce Campbell, Lauren Bricker and team.. 
 
Bruce, Lauren, we have established a mailing list for those interested in building an open, community built virtual world.. and discussions are leaning toward Java3D. Your input on VP would be invaluable.. Please consider joining up and posting at: 
<a href="http://www.ccon.org/lists/oworld.html" eudora="autourl">http://www.ccon.org/lists/oworld.html</a> 
 
the other lists fyi  are: 
<a href="http://www.ccon.org/lists/index.html" eudora="autourl">http://www.ccon.org/lists/index.html</a> 
 
You may also want to check out Robert Bjamason's Java3D MOO world below.. 
 
Bruce 
 
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 21:38:54 +0100 
From: Robert Bjarnason <robofly@this.is> 
Subject: ANN: JavaMoo alpha 3 
 
JavaMoo alpha 3 
This is primarily a Moo client using VRML97, HTML and/or Flash to 
describe how Moo objects look like. We intend to use this system 
for developing multi-user role-playing games and educational 
applications for the Internet. 
Features 
* Client for LambdaMoo (Moo stands for MUD (Multi-user Dungeons & 
Dragons) Object Oriented) 
* Java3D support 
* VRML97 support for worlds and avatars using the VRML97Loader class 
* Multi-user position support for avatars using ip-multicast 
* GNU copyright (full source code included) 
History 
JavaMoo was born on 1. April 1998 as an Java applet to work in a 
(HTML) Browser with a VRML plugin and using the VNet multi-user 
avatar system. Next JavaMoo evolved into using Flash applets to 
describe the Moo spaces in a cartoon like fashion. Now after attending 
(remotely) a Java3D presentation @ the VRML LA User Group - I decided 
to make an Java3D version, and here it is. 
Róbert Viðar Bjarnason 
robofly@this.is 
<a href="http://this.is/javamoo" eudora="autourl">http://this.is/javamoo</a>/ 
 
- --Installation 
Download 
For the client download: 
JDK1.2beta4 from http://developer.java.sun.com 
Java3Dbeta2 from http://developer.java.sun.com 
VRML97beta2 from http://developer.java.sun.com 
JavaMoo from http://this.is/javamoo 
If you have Win32 system you can select between an opengl and 
a direct3d version, please use the opengl version because of some 
nasty rendering bugs in the direct3d implementation. 
For the server download and install: 
LambdaMoo from ftp://ftp.lambda.moo.mud.org/pub/MOO/ 
Install 
Install JDK1.2 
Install Java3D 
Install VRML97 
Use the policytool to set networks access for the internet host 
and.this.is and the ipmulticast. 
Uncompress the javamoo.zip archive somewhere 
type: 
cd javamoo 
java Moo 
 
- --User guide (well...) 
Login 
You login by typing create <username> <password> into the textfield 
at the bottom of the screen. This will create you as an user. 
Use @gender <neuter,male,female,either,plural,egotistical,royal,...> 
to set your gender 
Use @describe me as <hmm...> 
3D Movement 
Left mouse button: turns you around 
Right mouse button: up&down and slide 
Alt+Left mouse button: walk and turn 
Moo Space Movement 
You use standard english/... like lingo: "north", "south", "east", 
"west" ... depending on names of the Moo spaces. 
Communications 
say("), whisper, page, emote, gag, whereis, who, ... 
Manipulation 
get, drop, give, put, look, inventory, ... 
Building 
@dig, @create, @recycle, @quota, @count, @audit, @classes, @realm, 
@move, @descibe, @show, @list, @edit ... 
Mail 
@mail, @read, @next, @prev, @send, @answer, @forward, ... 
News 
@rn, @subscribe, @skip, @unsubscribe, ... 
javaMoo commands (not part of the original LambdaMoo core) 
connect object to URL 
vconnect object to VRML97 URL 
vconnects object to IP multicast channel 
vconnectp object to IP multicast channel port 
 
- --How to create your own 3D Moo space 
first drop me a note @ robofly@this.is and I´ll authorize you as a 
programmer 
then, type the following commands into the textfield at the bottom of 
the screen: 
@dig My First Moo Space 
<this output will be generated by the Moo: 
My First Moo Space (#objectnr) created. 
<Write down the #objectnr because that is *the* reference to your 
<space, now keep on typing 
@move me to #objectnr 
vconnect #objectnr to http://url.for.your.vrml.file/file.wr* 
vconnects #objectnr to x.x.x.x (an legal multicast channel) 
vconnectp #objectnr to xxxx (an legal multicast port) 
@describe #objectnr as A happy space with sounds of seagulls in the 
distance. 
@move me to #62 
@move me to #objectnr 
<now your VRML97 scene should be loading, note: the VRML97Loader class 
has 
<limited VRML97 support and will crash the javaMoo upon unsupported tags 
 
- --Known bugs/limitations 
Sometimes when you mess around with the JSplitPanes you get 
some Swing related errors. 
The html and flash part of the system are not included in this 
version. 
All viewpoints are loaded but there is not yet a mechanism for 
changing between them. You will always enter the scene @ the first 
described viewpoint in the VRML97 file. 
When you move up or down in a 3D scene you will always be 
transformed back to the initial ground level when you go forward again. 
The avatars 3D positions are centered in the middle. 
The Inventory panel is not activated until you first type in the 
i*nventory Moo command. 
The source code is a kind of a hack. Not very well commented and some 
unused objects here and there. 
The TTL for the ipmulticast channel is hard coded to 10, I´ll add 
another Moo command to set this options for objects. 
Our host and.this.is is not on a very large Internet connection. 
JavaMoo has only been tested on a Windows98 system not any Sun 
hardware. 
 
- --Tips 
Use DEF AVATAR for the root Transform for you avatar if you are 
using your own. 
To change your avatar, type: connect me to 
http://the.url.of.your.avatar/file.wr* 
You will have to move between spaces to active the change. (will be 
fixed) 
Type "home" into the textfield to return to the main "hub" VRML 
scene. 
Use @bug, @typo, @idea to report to the Wizard. 
Use @gripe to send complaints to the Wizard. 
 
end. 
</html>
Bruce, you rule! Thanks so much for getting this going. Let folks know we
will be very active in the discussions after our VRST '98 experience
coming up late next week and the week after. Right now, I am a bit behind
in the coding effort...
Bruce
> Your input on VP would be invaluable.. Please
> consider joining up and posting at:
> http://www.ccon.org/lists/oworld.html
>
> the other lists fyi are:
> http://www.ccon.org/lists/index.html
>
> You may also want to check out Robert Bjamason's Java3D MOO world below..
Great on this as well.
> Bruce
>
> Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 21:38:54 +0100
> From: Robert Bjarnason <robofly@this.is>
> Subject: ANN: JavaMoo alpha 3
>
> JavaMoo alpha 3
> This is primarily a Moo client using VRML97, HTML and/or Flash to
> describe how Moo objects look like. We intend to use this system
> for developing multi-user role-playing games and educational
> applications for the Internet.
> Features
> * Client for LambdaMoo (Moo stands for MUD (Multi-user Dungeons &
> Dragons) Object Oriented)
> * Java3D support
> * VRML97 support for worlds and avatars using the VRML97Loader class
> * Multi-user position support for avatars using ip-multicast
> * GNU copyright (full source code included)
> History
> JavaMoo was born on 1. April 1998 as an Java applet to work in a
> (HTML) Browser with a VRML plugin and using the VNet multi-user
> avatar system. Next JavaMoo evolved into using Flash applets to
> describe the Moo spaces in a cartoon like fashion. Now after attending
> (remotely) a Java3D presentation @ the VRML LA User Group - I decided
> to make an Java3D version, and here it is.
> Róbert Viðar Bjarnason
> robofly@this.is
> http://this.is/javamoo/
>
> - --Installation
> Download
> For the client download:
> JDK1.2beta4 from http://developer.java.sun.com
> Java3Dbeta2 from http://developer.java.sun.com
> VRML97beta2 from http://developer.java.sun.com
> JavaMoo from http://this.is/javamoo
> If you have Win32 system you can select between an opengl and
> a direct3d version, please use the opengl version because of some
> nasty rendering bugs in the direct3d implementation.
> For the server download and install:
> LambdaMoo from ftp://ftp.lambda.moo.mud.org/pub/MOO/
> Install
> Install JDK1.2
> Install Java3D
> Install VRML97
> Use the policytool to set networks access for the internet host
> and.this.is and the ipmulticast.
> Uncompress the javamoo.zip archive somewhere
> type:
> cd javamoo
> java Moo
>
> - --User guide (well...)
> Login
> You login by typing create <username> <password> into the textfield
> at the bottom of the screen. This will create you as an user.
> Use @gender <neuter,male,female,either,plural,egotistical,royal,...>
> to set your gender
> Use @describe me as <hmm...>
> 3D Movement
> Left mouse button: turns you around
> Right mouse button: up&down and slide
> Alt+Left mouse button: walk and turn
> Moo Space Movement
> You use standard english/... like lingo: "north", "south", "east",
> "west" ... depending on names of the Moo spaces.
> Communications
> say("), whisper, page, emote, gag, whereis, who, ...
> Manipulation
> get, drop, give, put, look, inventory, ...
> Building
> @dig, @create, @recycle, @quota, @count, @audit, @classes, @realm,
> @move, @descibe, @show, @list, @edit ...
> Mail
> @mail, @read, @next, @prev, @send, @answer, @forward, ...
> News
> @rn, @subscribe, @skip, @unsubscribe, ...
> javaMoo commands (not part of the original LambdaMoo core)
> connect object to URL
> vconnect object to VRML97 URL
> vconnects object to IP multicast channel
> vconnectp object to IP multicast channel port
>
> - --How to create your own 3D Moo space
> first drop me a note @ robofly@this.is and I´ll authorize you as a
> programmer
> then, type the following commands into the textfield at the bottom of
> the screen:
> @dig My First Moo Space
> <this output will be generated by the Moo:
> My First Moo Space (#objectnr) created.
> <Write down the #objectnr because that is *the* reference to your
> <space, now keep on typing
> @move me to #objectnr
> vconnect #objectnr to http://url.for.your.vrml.file/file.wr*
> vconnects #objectnr to x.x.x.x (an legal multicast channel)
> vconnectp #objectnr to xxxx (an legal multicast port)
> @describe #objectnr as A happy space with sounds of seagulls in the
> distance.
> @move me to #62
> @move me to #objectnr
> <now your VRML97 scene should be loading, note: the VRML97Loader class
> has
> <limited VRML97 support and will crash the javaMoo upon unsupported tags
>
> - --Known bugs/limitations
> Sometimes when you mess around with the JSplitPanes you get
> some Swing related errors.
> The html and flash part of the system are not included in this
> version.
> All viewpoints are loaded but there is not yet a mechanism for
> changing between them. You will always enter the scene @ the first
> described viewpoint in the VRML97 file.
> When you move up or down in a 3D scene you will always be
> transformed back to the initial ground level when you go forward again.
> The avatars 3D positions are centered in the middle.
> The Inventory panel is not activated until you first type in the
> i*nventory Moo command.
> The source code is a kind of a hack. Not very well commented and some
> unused objects here and there.
> The TTL for the ipmulticast channel is hard coded to 10, I´ll add
> another Moo command to set this options for objects.
> Our host and.this.is is not on a very large Internet connection.
> JavaMoo has only been tested on a Windows98 system not any Sun
> hardware.
>
> - --Tips
> Use DEF AVATAR for the root Transform for you avatar if you are
> using your own.
> To change your avatar, type: connect me to
> http://the.url.of.your.avatar/file.wr*
> You will have to move between spaces to active the change. (will be
> fixed)
> Type "home" into the textfield to return to the main "hub" VRML
> scene.
> Use @bug, @typo, @idea to report to the Wizard.
> Use @gripe to send complaints to the Wizard.
>
> end.
>
>
>
> ++ The Contact Consortium ++
> A Forum for Contact, Culture and Community in Digital Space
> Visit us at: http://www.ccon.org
>
> PO Box 66866, Scotts Valley CA USA 95067-6866
>
> /- Living, Learning and Working in Virtual Worlds -/
>
>
>

Hi Bruce,
My hand surgery is scheduled for the week before Thanksgiving in Tucson,
and I may want to get a laptop to take on the road; I'll be there eight
days with my right arm in a big cast, hate to waste the time not coding.
Your influence has begun to sink in. I realize the only safe way to
build my next-generation system is to do the entire GUI in Java, so I
can jump ship from SGI if I have to in 1-2 years.
I might even code up the compute engine first in Java, just to see how
slow it is, because the best published data structure & algorithm
chapters now in print for genuine, hard-core directed graphs (a' la
Sims-94) are in Java, even more so than C++/STL. If Java is too slow, I
can do the high-speed compute engine in C++/STL anyway, and that part
should port easily.
==> Your advice and predictions have been pretty good in the past. So,
do you have any recommendations for a laptop I could use for Java/GUI
development, that I could later put on the ethernet here with the SGI &
Mac? You said something in Cambridge about getting one I could synch to
my SGI monitor.
BTW, Chris Langton invited me to send prints for Av98 in a gallery in
Santa Fe, nice of him.
Rupert Sheldrake predicts Richard Dawkins will revert to his usual
vituperative self regarding Lynn Margulis in public and print. We'll
see.
regards, Steven
--
Steven Rooke, srooke@concentric.net, (760) 397-0575; Fax: 397-0045
Web: http://www.concentric.net/~Srooke/
Organization: Self Organized
From Frank crowell this morning..
See crack.com at
http://www.crack.com/
From: maddog@best.com
Subject: Golgotha has shutdown
Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 10:17:35 -0800 (PST)
Crack.com announced it was going out of business Oct 22.
As part of that closure they have also decided to
make the complete Golgotha game engine and source available
to anyone who wants the material, with absolutely minimum
restrictions. Essentially they are placing all the material
they own in public domain. Pieces that have other licenses
associated with it -- such as the MP3 loader (music) and jpeg
loader --belong to someone else. The URL for the complete details
and source can be found at http://www.crack.com/golgotha_release/.
The download activity was fairly heavy when they first announced
that the source was available, but now they had some mirror sites.
The total package is about 130+ Mbytes.
In brief, the product is a 3D engine that can run in either win32 or
Linux (with 3dfx), the usual list of API features, model editor, and
3ds max filter. More stuff you can read about on the web page.
The project doesn't appear to be finished, but potential is definitely
there.

frank

++ The Contact Consortium ++
A Forum for Contact, Culture and Community in Digital Space
Visit us at: http://www.ccon.org
PO Box 66866, Scotts Valley CA USA 95067-6866

/- Living, Learning and Working in Virtual Worlds -/

Hi Bruce,
Damn, I've been sucked into Gerald De Jong's EIG world! Attachments
follow (just skim). More and more I'm thinking what's needed is a
generic genotype engine, with plug-in lock&key type interfaces to
arbitrary dynamic simulations, where Gerald's EIG world would be one of
many sims the genetics could control. The mapping from Karl Sims' 1994
genotype to Gerald's SpringWorld [Larry Yaeger's term for it] phenotype
is totally straightforward, one-to-one. After that, it gets more
interesting.
I don't have a clue how this might fit into Oworlds -- what I'm weakest
on is understanding the surrounding environment, and inter-world
interaction within it, so I'm sending this just to you right now. Maybe
let's wait and see if I can build a Java directed graph genome around
EIG/Struck, like I did last year around generic complex plane fractals.
Then if that works (I know it will), we get some bright minds together
to design some standard interfaces so they can all interact in the same
environment. I'm going to slow down for a while with hand surgery
November 18 in Tucson, 10 day recovery there, then kind of 1 1/2 handed
for a few weeks afterward.
I seem to be zeroing in on a Toshiba Tecra 8000/266 to get me through
the 10 days in Tucson. Considerably cheaper than Tecra 7xx's, lighter,
but should handle genetic springworlds or genetic fractals when the time
comes.
> Subject:
> Re: EIG, genetics
> Date:
> Mon, 26 Oct 1998 20:51:02 +0100
> From:
> Gerald de Jong <gerald@beautifulcode.nl>
> To:
> Steven Rooke <srooke@concentric.net>
>
>
>
>
> At 09:54 AM 10/26/98 -0800, you wrote:
> >I just had the most wonderful time reading your ElasticIntervalGeometry
> >web page! Fascinating. I particularly liked the fractal, size-time
> >scaling, and higher dimensionality portions.
>
> that's really wonderful to hear! i've been snagging free hours between
> my everyday work activities and my fatherhood responsibilities to scribble
> down some of the background thinking. it fascinates me endlessly as well.
> i go to sleep thinking about it. i is possessed! :)
>
> >Naturally, I couldn't help visualizing how to build a genetic system
> >around it. Karl Sims' 1994 Alife-IV and SIGGRAPH papers describe sexual
> >crossover, grafting, and mutation algorithms operating on directed graph
> >genomes, which themselves can be recursively nested.
>
> i don't understand how Karl's inventions work. how can i get hold of those
> papers?
>
> the question that arises most strongly in my mind is: why "directed" graphs?
> i've explained a little bit in my essays why directedness is not interesting
> to EIG, and i can't see any reason yet why that would need to change in order
> to go the genetic route.
>
> >Whatever internal data structure you use to describe a given EIG
> >construction, it should be mappable to a directed graph, hence should be
> >straightforward to mutate and interbreed them. Surely someone must have
> >brought this up at Biota-2, and I missed it. Has anyone tried it?
>
> nobody mentioned directed graphs. we've been puzzling about this in the
> Struck community for a lont time, and there's something really fascinating
> available as a genetic coding: the building instructions. if you've ever
> constructed something using Struck, you'll know that it consists of little
> simple atomic acts. i've CCd my most recent posting to my mailing list
> (eventually to reach the page you read) which describes the process
> briefly. a structure can be defined by a series of simple actions. what
> could be better DNA?
>
> >You could run it either in automated fitness-assignment mode or with the
> >user assigning fitness based on aesthetics of motion. Automating the
> >fitness assignment would involve some work, and might cover some new
> >ground, but in principle you should be able to determine proximity to
> >the border-of-chaos regime, and use that in automated fitness
> >assignment.
>
> i'd like to discuss the fitness-assignment aspect in more depth with
> you. actually it would be lovely to have you on the Struck mailing list,
> because there are a number of other people who share my burning
> fascination for a genetic approach, and your presence would be an
> honor.
>
> i hope you don't mind that i copied your note on the list. i've also
> recommended that the members pay a visit to your website. if you
> want to join the list send "subscribe struck srooke@concentric.net"
> in the body of an email to majordomo@xs4all.nl.
>
> >I can see I'm going to have to resist getting sucked into EIG at the
> >expense of my other projects! Or maybe I can design my next system as a
> >generalized directed-graph-genome breeding architecture, making it
> >relatively easy to run in EIG mode or image-generation mode or
> >anything-mode. Sounds like fun.
>
> i can't say that i'll try and avoid getting you sucked into EIG because
> your expertise is pretty damned welcome. your work combined with
> mine could be more than just a bit interesting.
>
> >Marcos Novak, at the Art and Aesthetics of Artificial Life art exhibit
> >at UCLA in June, made two observations that I find relevant to EIG:
> >
> >[1] As the underlying structure [e.g. data-structure, architecture]
> >becomes more complex, the resulting forms appear more organic.
>
> true, but the most surprising thing about EIG is how natural-looking
> some of the most simple things are. remember the fish? i built that
> in a half-hour. by the way, the films i showed at Biota II are available
> for download if you're interested or you want to show somebody.
>
> http://www.critpath.org/~strucky/biota/fishy.mov
> http://www.critpath.org/~strucky/biota/bird.mov
> http://www.critpath.org/~strucky/biota/spidy.mov
> http://www.critpath.org/~strucky/biota/sperm.mov
>
> >[2] Once you're on the trail of an architecture that produces
> >organic-looking forms, find a higher-dimensional representation of it,
> >and do your mutating and interbreeding on a higher-dimensional genome:
> >the results will appear even more life-like.
>
> that's interesting. i wonder what the basis is for that assertion.
>
>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Subject:
> Re: EIG, genetics
> Date:
> Mon, 26 Oct 1998 14:40:13 -0800
> From:
> Steven Rooke <srooke@concentric.net>
> Organization:
> Self Organized
> To:
> Gerald de Jong <gerald@beautifulcode.nl>
> References:
> 1
>
>
>
>
> > i don't understand how Karl's inventions work. how can i get hold of those
> > papers?
>
> Sims, Karl. <A NAME="Sims1991paper">Artificial Evolution
> for Computer Graphics</A>. "Computer
> Graphics", volume 25, number 4, 1991 ACM SIGGRAPH Proceedings.
> 
> 
> Sims, Karl. <A NAME="SimsBehavior">Evolving 3D
> Morphology and Behavior</A> by Competition.
> Artificial Life IV, Proceedings of the Fourth International Workshop
> on the Synthesis and Simulation of Living Systems; eds. Rodney A.
> Brooks and Pattie Maes. 
>
> The two papers mostly cover the same ground, so use whichever is easier
> to locate. I do not know of any web versions, but anyone with a 1994
> SIGGRAPH cdrom should have it.
>
> > the question that arises most strongly in my mind is: why "directed"
> graphs?
> > i've explained a little bit in my essays why directedness is not interesting
> > to EIG, and i can't see any reason yet why that would need to change in
> order
> > to go the genetic route.
>
> I confess I don't understand the guts of the graph algorithms well
> enough to know why, but down in all the published graph traversal
> algorithms, there's a switch: directed or undirected (maybe the
> distinction is trivial, like efficiency). Any undirected graph can be
> viewed as a directed graph doubled up with reversely directed links.
>
> I don't think the distinction is important for doing genetics on EIG.
> Assuming the directed graph is the best structure for doing Sims-style
> genetics, there's no problem: I'm sure one could employ whatever
> traversal algorithm works to visit every node (joint) in an EIG, and map
> it to an arbitrarily-directed digraph. Do the genetics on the digraph,
> resulting in one or more new digraphs. Then from the digraph genome,
> construct a new EIG phenotype.
>
> There, that's it: digraph genome, undirected graph EIG phenotype.
>
> Right, I can see why you need a digraph for genetics: when you're doing
> crossover, you have to have a known starting point in each genome, and
> traverse in the forward direction to the swap points. Again, no problem
> for EIG. Simple mutations could be done on an undirected graph, but
> they aren't as adaptive during natural selection as is sex.
>
> > nobody mentioned directed graphs. we've been puzzling about this in the
> > Struck community for a lont time, and there's something really fascinating
> > available as a genetic coding: the building instructions. if you've ever
> > constructed something using Struck, you'll know that it consists of little
> > simple atomic acts.
>
> I have yet to see the code or construct anything in Struck, but just
> from your postings and your demos at Biota-2, there is an obvious way to
> do the genetics.
>
> > i've CCd my most recent posting to my mailing list
> > (eventually to reach the page you read) which describes the process
> > briefly. a structure can be defined by a series of simple actions. what
> > could be better DNA?
>
> Each joint is a node in a digraph. Each spring connects two joints,
> hence is an arc between the digraph nodes. If you have any constraints
> on maximum, minimum, or starting spring strength, they go in as arc
> weights.
>
> For genome purposes, it doesn't matter where you start, or which spring
> you follow first during traversal of a multi-connected joint. That's
> the beauty of genetics on genome, with selection on phenotype: you
> don't care in what order the underlying joints and springs are
> assembled, for selection purposes all that counts is the result, the
> "adult" EIG phenotype, the thing you see, or more accurately the
> dynamical system that is a running EIG in clock-stepped time, where it's
> your memory, spread out in time, that judges its motion aesthetics.
>
> > i'd like to discuss the fitness-assignment aspect in more depth with
> > you. actually it would be lovely to have you on the Struck mailing list,
> > because there are a number of other people who share my burning
> > fascination for a genetic approach, and your presence would be an
> > honor.
>
> I took a deep breath and signed up. The vortex is pulling me in!
>
> Digraph genome -> adult EIG phenotype <-> environment-including-time
>
> No need for the genetics themselves to know anything about the
> clock-stepped nature of a running EIG. The genotype codes for a startup
> phenotype, then the hand of God comes in and "runs" the phenotype
> extra-genetically. Eventually you could explore putting runtime
> parameters, like speed-size-clocktick relationships, into the genome.
>
> Survival of the most aesthetic, or the most complex, or the ones that
> hover the best, barely on the "order" side of the order-chaos
> borderland.
>
> [1] human user (the environment) sees only adult EIG, runs it, and
> assigns fitness after observing behavior -- OR
>
> [2] set up a software monitor in the environment, that keeps a running
> list of statistics on the current EIG phenotype, maybe several stat
> moments on change in position of nodes or strength of springs -- it
> wouldn't matter, use whatever metric you want (in my genetic fractals, I
> just put in entry points for all the statistical routines in my math
> library). Measure the change in "floppiness", as the configuration
> approaches the chaos borderland. Reward its fitness if it approaches,
> but punish if it goes across (melts down). A frozen EIG gets a very low
> fitness score. Run each of several different adult EIGs for some number
> of clock ticks, assign numerical fitness scores [as you say, lots more
> to talk about, just how to do this]. Then breed next generation of EIG
> genomes, repeat.
>
> Hmm, a primordial-soup genome in a large population of such, could have
> randomly assigned spring strengths at Time Zero, but at Stop-and-Breed
> time, either (1) the most recent spring state could be used for the next
> generation, or (2) some dynamical measure of changes in spring states
> over time.
>
> > i can't say that i'll try and avoid getting you sucked into EIG because
> > your expertise is pretty damned welcome. your work combined with
> > mine could be more than just a bit interesting.
>
> Yeah, I'm seeing that. I know I can wrap a genetic system around _any_
> dynamical simulation, just a matter of time and good software design.
>
> > >Marcos Novak, at the Art and Aesthetics of Artificial Life art exhibit
> > >at UCLA in June, made two observations that I find relevant to EIG:
> > >[1] As the underlying structure [e.g. data-structure, architecture]
> > >becomes more complex, the resulting forms appear more organic.
> >
> > true, but the most surprising thing about EIG is how natural-looking
> > some of the most simple things are. remember the fish? i built that
> > in a half-hour.
>
> Yes, I remember. The two observations are not contradictory. You get
> immense power, or leverage, for constructing very beautiful creatures in
> your system with a very simple interface and underlying architecture.
> That just means they'll get all the *more* interesting when a genetic
> system is mapped to them. Let the phenotype <-> environment interaction
> (human or automatic) deal with the genomes. What Novak was saying is
> that as the genome gets richer, the resulting forms become more
> lifelike. I predict the same for SpringWorld (Larry Yaeger's suggested
> name for a modified version of EIG we were talking about over dinner,
> one that would include embedded neural network "brains" -- just idle
> one-time talk so far).
>
> > >[2] Once you're on the trail of an architecture that produces
> > >organic-looking forms, find a higher-dimensional representation of it,
> > >and do your mutating and interbreeding on a higher-dimensional genome:
> > >the results will appear even more life-like.
> >
> > that's interesting. i wonder what the basis is for that assertion.
>
> Ha! There _is_ no basis! Novak just threw it out as a possibility. He
> is an architect, and uses genetic algorithms to design four-dimensional
> VR architecture. It was just his experience that when he took the
> mathematical representation of his genome, and treated it as the
> derivative of something else (something unknown, so you experiment),
> manually constructed a 4D genome that in one 3D slice became his
> existing 3D genome, then did his genetic operations on the 4D genome,
> when he took new 3D slices, the results _looked_ more organic and
> lifelike. We don't know if it's a general property of nature.
>
> Think of the clay mineral surface theory for the origin of complex
> biopolymers: you have this ordered 2D clay structure with defects. The
> "feet" of carbon-chain polymers attach themselves to this ordered
> structure, but now their tops are waving around in 3D, with more degrees
> of freedom (and fast, with polar molecules in aqueous solution): more
> opportunity for complex structures to emerge, forced marriage of order
> and chaos.
>
> That may be an entirely different argument, let me try again. Say a
> bunch of people run EIG worlds over a long time, posting and swapping
> useful genomes. After a while, patterns would start to emerge; certain
> structures would be generally known to be good at certain types of
> dynamical behavior. Someone builds up a Linnaean taxonomy of EIG
> structures / behaviors. We don't know enough at all about the evolution
> of morphogenesis, genomic regulatory networks, metabolic pathways in
> biological evolution ever to unravel it and make sense of the
> higher-order patterns behind it all. But you'd have a complete record
> of EIG evolution from Primordial Soup time. Maybe then the higher-order
> patterns could themselves be identified in the genome, leading to a kind
> of directed evolution. After all, that's exactly what we're starting to
> do ourselves, tinkering with our own DNA. But I'm getting way ahead of
> myself.
>
> For EIG, I think you would start with a simple one-to-one mapping of a
> digraph genome to an adult EIG phenotype. Get evolution started. As
> the generations go by, the resulting forms are guaranteed to move in the
> direction defined by your fitness function [and there are zillions of
> ways to do that]. The underlying digraph genomes will be easy to
> understand at first, but as time goes by, it will become harder and
> harder to inspect an evolved genome and have any hope of predicting what
> the EIG phenotype will look like. That's Karl Sims' experience, and
> mine, in a much more limited way.
>
> The possibilities of wrapping a genetic system around EIG are
> mind-boggling. Servers could be evolving new phenotypes around the
> clock, with users stepping in and "mining" useful designs, nudging and
> steering the shape of the fitness functions. Maybe Tom Ray's digital
> nature preserve will end up manifesting itself as evolving EIG
> creatures, with a thriving web community contributing spare cpu cycles.
>
> Aacck! this thing really pulls on you!
>
> Actually, this comes at a perfect time for me, as I begin my new system
> design. It really wants to be a generalized graph-genome,
> object-oriented system, where the genetics could be mapped to EIG
> "creatures" or my images, or anything. I'm going to need to spend a lot
> of design time on this one. Maybe there is a general evolution system,
> with standard interfaces, and people can write plug-ins to map genotype
> to phenotype, fitness function plug-ins, etc.
>
> Of course, it would be quicker to start with your existing system, and
> build an EIG-specific digraph genome architecture that would live
> side-by-side. Maybe we should do this first, as proof of concept, learn
> from mistakes, then do the standardized-interface design.
>
> It's still going to take me a few months to get up to speed in Java. On
> November 18, I have hand surgery, to replace a plastic cap on my
> radioulnar joint, and I'll be one-handed for several weeks. (One reason
> I'm hurrying to select a laptop is to take it with me for the 10 days
> I'll be in Tucson recovering from the surgery). A good time to study
> Java.
>
> You can post this if you want; the listserver hasn't validated me yet.
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Subject:
> Re: EIG, genetics
> Date:
> Mon, 26 Oct 1998 14:52:19 -0800
> From:
> Steven Rooke <srooke@concentric.net>
> Organization:
> Self Organized
> To:
> Gerald de Jong <gerald@beautifulcode.nl>
> References:
> 1
>
>
>
>
> I can't resist, one more thought: let the universe of people on the web
> determine the fitnesses, simply by frequency of downloads of movies.
> You'd want a representative population of thumbnail images of the
> creatures in the movies on a single page, updated frequently.
> Less-frequently downloaded ones become extinct. Probabilistic fitness
> selection, breeding cycles determined by activity (fast with lots of
> downloads, slowly if infrequent). Students could do studies on people's
> preferences from different timezones, countries.
>
> If the evolved critters can be used for anything (autonomous computer
> graphic agent animation?), someone will fund the site. If the problem
> of automating the fitness function is too difficult, let thousands of
> kids on the net do it for you.
>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

--
Steven Rooke, srooke@concentric.net, (760) 397-0575; Fax: 397-0045
Web: http://www.concentric.net/~Srooke/
Organization: Self Organized
Hi Karl,
I'm attaching a posting to the "struck" system listserver, from a new
fan of yours. This all started with a demo by Gerald De Jong
(gerald@beautifulcode.nl) at Biota-2 in Cambridge last month. He has a
system called Elastic Interval Geometry (EIG) - Larry Yaeger calls it
"SpringWorld", a universe made entirely of joints and springs.
Apparently Gerald had just really got things working well the day or so
before the conference, so he wasn't a speaker, but a couple of people
granted him demo time from their own talks.
In electricity-less Magdalene Hall, Gerald showed a movie of a flying
manta on his Toshiba laptop that had taken him less than 30 minutes to
construct. He gets an amazing amount of emergent dynamic behavior from a
minimal amount of construction effort (adding joints and weighted
springs). It's an undirected graph phenotype with weighted arcs.
In the last several days I've been having an exchange with Gerald
pointing out that your 1994 digraph genome ops (crossover, grafting,
mutations) should work very easily on a simple 1:1 genotype:phenotype
wrapper around EIG-land, and now you've been discovered by the main
group. So far they seem to be more interested in non-physical
simulations (no fluid, gravity, friction) but rather the inherent
dynamic behavior that happens anyway with just point joints and spring
forces. Constructions have been made spanning ordered dynamic behavior
like the "swimming" manta, to chaotic flopping, so there has been talk
of applying the approach to the chaos/order borderland as part of an
eventual fitness function.
I hope all is well with you and your ventures!
Regards, Steven
--
Steven Rooke, srooke@concentric.net, (760) 397-0575; Fax: 397-0045
Web: http://www.concentric.net/~Srooke/
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Thanks to Steven Rooke. It was his email that put me on
to Karl Sims A-Life work. WOW!. I was particularly
blown away by the virtual creatures. I suspect his work
causes this reaction in a lot of people. A search on his
name produced 577 entries in Altavista.
there were alot of references to his papers at the end of
papers and lists of "cool links" pages. Unfortunately many
of them point to dead links at the thinking machines site.
The Biota.org site had to remove Karl's movie of his
creature because it was too popular they exceeded their
web site quota. (The site is till worth a look anyway)
http://www.biota.org/conf97/ksims.html
Thomas Ray's paper "Artificial Life" is a fascinating paper
in itself,
http://www.hip.atr.co.jp/~ray/pubs/fatm/fatm.html
and has a chapter on Karl's Virtual Creatures.
http://www.hip.atr.co.jp/~ray/pubs/fatm/node10.html
Karl's papers can be found here,
http://aid.wu-wien.ac.at/~mitloehn/papers/index.html
They are in compressed postscript format. you will
need to use "gzip" to decompress them and then you
will need something like ghostscript to view them.
The papers themselves may be a bit technical for
the lay audience.
Passing on the papers is understandable but it is
definitely worth downloading the mpg movie of the
creatures in action, even if it is 10megs.
http://cogsci1.psych.ox.ac.uk/~ramin/usersguide/usersguide.html
or
http://www.cogs.susx.ac.uk/users/christ/mpg/

The swimming creatures were mind blowing, the "walking"
creatures were so ungainly that they broke me up.
I can see people wanting to keep these creatures as virtual pets
in tamagotchi fashion. Can you imagine thousands of computers,
running these things. What a breading great breading ground.
Perhaps by allowing users to interact with the creatures perhaps
by feeding the ones that they liked, they would evolve the
creatures (intententionaly or otherwise) based on aesthetics and
cuteness.

Other Karl Sims links:
http://www.aec.at/prix/kunstler/Eksims.html
http://www.aec.at/fest/fest93e/sims.html
Enjoy. Surf's up.
BTW: if you want to know more about getting A-Life by
hitchhiking you can try this. (hope you like puns)
http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/hypertext/faq/usenet/ai-faq/genetic/
In reply to Alan Ferguson, from Steven Rooke:
>[Rooke to Sims]:
>> In the last several days I've been having an exchange with Gerald
>> pointing out that your 1994 digraph genome ops (crossover, grafting,
>> mutations) should work very easily on a simple 1:1 genotype:phenotype
>> wrapper around EIG-land, and now you've been discovered by the main
>> group.
>[Ferguson to Rooke]:
> A 1:1 genotype:phenotype. That would give rise to Lamarckian like
> evolution. What mom learned during her lifetime she could pass down to
> her offspring by giving birth. That could be very interesting.
Not necessarily. The genotype:phenotype mapping rapidly becomes so
complex that it's impossible to determine just which genes contributed
to which success or failure out in the world (the phenotype interacting
with the environment). When the adult EIG is a success or failure at
"doing something" in the environment, how do you know just which genes,
or combinations of genes, were responsible for doing what?
There has been fruitful discussion of Lamarckian vs. Darwinian evolution
at most of the A-Life conferences, including at Digital Biota-2 in
Cambridge last month, starting off with Richard Dawkins. He felt that
Lamarckian evolution is too susceptible to getting stuck on local
adaptive fitness peaks; it's "too easy" in a way, hard to jump to
distant peaks that might lead to a really complex thing like the eye.
David Ackley at AL-3 or 4 ran a comparison of Lamarckian vs. Darwinian
evolution on a grid on a Maspar massively parallel supercomputer, and
concluded that given sufficient geographical separation and genetic
diversity through time, Lamarckian could in some cases be faster,
adaptively, than Darwinian evolution. This whole subject is still
wide-open, with proponents on both sides, as regards true a-life:
Life-as-it-could-be. The only pre-computer age model we have is
biological evolution, which, as Richard Dawkins so eloquently defends,
is entirely Darwinian.
>>[Ferguson to Rooke]:
> Many of the forces in nature can be visualized as spring forces of some
> type or another. The springs themselves are damped. Perhaps a small
> modification to the way springs are damped could be made to simulate a
> simplistic fluid.
Cool! I can see that, but I don't follow how such a fluid could affect
the behavior and hence the adaptive fitness of another EIG-individual.
Would there be two entities, a global "fluid" entity, with other,
independent, EIG individuals interacting with the fluid?
Where you get all the leverage in biological evolution is by having
distinct phases: genotype -> phenotype <-> environment. I like to
think of it as "you have to be able to skin your knees before you can
learn to walk". You have to have something against which to skin your
knees. Help me out here, I may be missing something critical, since I
have no direct experience running EIG sims.
> Springs can be used both a muscle and as a sensor.
> The muscle is currently implemented by changing the rest length of the
> spring dynamically. A sensor could be implemented by comparing the rest
> length to the current length of the spring.
Mmm, good point, a completely different way of looking at it. Can you
do this, has anyone kept track of dynamical histories of EIG runs, and
maybe looked at autocorrelations / covariances of spring lengths? It
sounds sort of incestuous (to an old evolver of genetic images). But
there's definitely something there. It might be interesting to look to
see if there's a way to map that actuator/sensor model into something
like Karl Sims' genome, where there is a clear distinction in kind
between actuator and sensor, a priori from the very start. I don't
know, gotta twist my mind around that one.
> The missing piece is a nerve.
Listen, adding neural networks to EIG / SpringWorld is very tempting.
Larry Yaeger had some excellent ideas about doing just that at Biota-2,
and he has the experience to really know how (Larry also thought of the
name "SpringWorld"). Hmm, this group may not have been exposed to Larry
Yaeger's PolyWorld. Larry and Karl Sims are A-Life cousins. Check out,
at the very start:
http://alife.santafe.edu/alife/software/polyworld.html
Larry is a master of evolving genomes coding for neural networks with
open-ended natural selection. His eyes were gleaming at Biota-2, trying
to figure out how to get personal time to program the introduction of
evolving neural nets into an EIG-type world. Most of the big advances
in A-Life software have come from bright programmers like Larry, or Tom
Ray, between jobs or on their own time. We don't yet have the economic
niches that will support the Larrys, Toms, and Karls to do their stuff
full-time.
But back to your observation: is it possible to have all things in
EIG-world? I.e. can you define and express genotype, phenotype, and
environment all within the pure, simple framework of just joints and
springs? My impression from Gerald is that much of the leverage and
power we were seeing came from the extreme simplicity of the joint /
spring universe.
As the real Universe has cooled down since the Big Bang, it has
undergone repeated phase transitions, symmetry breakings, where what
once was simple became more complex through time. First you didn't even
have atoms, then you did. Much later, cooler, came complex organic
molecules.
Will EIG-world evolve its own higher-level entities like biomolecules
and cells, with joints & springs relegated to the atomistic level?
Or should we be looking for a different, holistic metaphor? Maybe
instead of forcing the system to build itself up from atomistic
(reductionist) joints & springs, you apply the same rules to all levels
of the organizational hierarchy (size scale) at the same time. That
might be more like David Bohm's "implicate order", or the holarchical
models of Arthur Koestler. To my knowledge, no one has even tried to
construct a holarchy simulator. Maybe such a thing would enable the
emergence of complex cell-like structures more easily and quickly than a
bottom-up atomistic simulation (e.g. Steen Rasmussen's excellent
six-weeks-of-Cray time production of micelles [proto-cellular
structures] from simplified models of hydrophobic/hydrophilic
carbon-chain molecules in a very simplified computational model of an
aqueous solution).
> If we can keep things computationally light, it may just be possible to make
> evolution of this type work on hardware that is less than a cognition
> machine.
The Holy Grail. I think you folks are hot on its trail. Digital
Biota-2 was a great synergizer. The a-life group (or cyberbiologists)
didn't know about the EIG group until Biota-2. We have an opportunity
here.
--
Steven Rooke, srooke@concentric.net, (760) 397-0575; Fax: 397-0045
Web: http://www.concentric.net/~Srooke/
Organization: Self Organized
i'm overjoyed! today i was able to understand the Java3D api
enough to be able to generate a basic scene graph based on an
elastic interval network and have it render on my screen, rotating
around! this is powerful technology and i've just scratched the
surface, but wow!!

---
Gerald de Jong, Beautiful Code B.V.
Rotterdam, The Netherlands
http://www.beautifulcode.nl
Bruce Damer wrote:
NASA budgeting something for such and effort would yield
wondrous fruit indeed!
I should explain some of my conduct. The essence of my problem is
that I've been hamstrung by uncertainty about my project's budget
for months. Things have become clear in the last couple of weeks,
although the level of funding is less than it was to have been.
This uncertainty delayed hiring anyone from March until
September (when I finally had to take a chance) as well as most
other expenses.
The second problem is that we were switched from a pot of money
that could support a project that was 50% outreach related to
internal NASA Artificial Intelligence research funds, for which
outreach is not explicitly supported. This has moved the criteria
for success much closer to engineering support. My compromise is
to go for a combination of engineering support and graduate level
training. (I'll tell you much more about the specific plan if
you're interested.)
This switch also reduced our budget somewhat. The original budget
could cover 4 full-time people. The makeup of the project team
was determined not by me, but by the funders and, it includes a
professor at Northwestern and one at the University of West
Florida and associated clouds of grad students. (That left one
person here at Ames plus me).
Now, the budget will cover between 2 and 3. UWF is likely to drop
out. Moreover we almost immediately have to start proposing again
for next year. (We were originally promised 2 years of stable
funds to start.)
The point of mentioning all this is to say that it has been my
goal to support some external work, either with you or someone
else appropriate. I have not been able to do this so far, but I
am continuing to try to work it out. I'd say the odds are 50-50
that I could fund something small this year. If I get funding
next year, then I will be able to fund something.
So my situation is good in that I have funding through September
and possibly further, depending upon what happens in the next
funding round.
I am specifically interested in open source efforts to create a
multi-user, 3d, scriptable, customizable .... world infrastructure
that is at the level of or better than something like
ActiveWorlds. Do you know of any efforts or talk like that?
(You've mentioned there may be some interest in reimplementing
activeworlds on the part of some of the original developers.) I
think the Struck project is certainly interesting, but it isn't
what I had in mind.
- Mark

At 06:57 PM 1/5/99 -0800, you wrote:
>Gerald, there is some interesting open source multiuser worlds talk going
>on on the VRML list.. you on that? Especially about Deepmatrix.. another
>effort..
anybody have a summary webpage or something? i'm not sure i can
handle yet another mailing list now. maybe the digest.
our great discussion has fallen silent. are you too busy or is there
something else?
---
Gerald de Jong, Beautiful Code B.V.
Rotterdam, The Netherlands, Tel. +31655893940
http://www.beautifulcode.nl
Gerald
The VRML mailing list html archive is great reading and is at:
http://www.vrml.org/www-vrml/hypermail/
wish i could have such a service!
VRML99 mentions some open source type collaborations too.. workshops and papers at:
http://www.c-lab.de/vrml99/
Padeborn germany in feb. If i was going i would come to see you!
Will get back to our discussions soon, i just arrived back from Canada and am trying to take care of a flood of stuff here.
Bruce

At 07:55 PM 1/6/99 +0100, you wrote:
>At 06:57 PM 1/5/99 -0800, you wrote:
>>Gerald, there is some interesting open source multiuser worlds talk going
>>on on the VRML list.. you on that? Especially about Deepmatrix.. another
>>effort..
>
>anybody have a summary webpage or something? i'm not sure i can
>handle yet another mailing list now. maybe the digest.
>
>our great discussion has fallen silent. are you too busy or is there
>something else?
>
>---
>Gerald de Jong, Beautiful Code B.V.
>Rotterdam, The Netherlands, Tel. +31655893940
>http://www.beautifulcode.nl
<html>
Gerald, another java net game world effort.. 
 
b 
 
From: Mike Sellers <mike@bignetwork.com> 
Subject: Socioanthro: can you lend a hand? (load testing at Big Network) 
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 16:31:47 -0800 
Bestservhost: lists.best.com 
Mime-Version: 1.0 
 
I'm sending this out to a pretty wide audience; my apologies in advance if 
this makes your personal spam-o-meter tick upward, or if you receive this 
more than once. 
 
We're attempting to load-test our multiplayer Java games on the Big Network 
with real live people, and we'd really like as much help as possible. All 
you need to do is go to our site and try out a game or two: checkers, 
chess, backgammon, Spades, etc. You might even find that you have a good 
time. :-) 
 
If you'd like to check this out and lend a hand for a few minutes (hang 
out, chat if you like, play a game or two), go to 
<<a href="http://www.bignetwork.com/cc" eudora="autourl">http://www.bignetwork.com/cc</a>>. You can register with the Big Network if 
you like to get your own username and nickname (yes, it's free), or just 
head into the "Central Park" game lobby as a guest. Our games are all 
java, so you won't need to do any downloads or anything, but you will need 
to use Netscape or Internet Explorer 3.0 or 4.0 (4.0 is more stable). The 
lobby is smaller than 100K, so the applet should appear in less than a 
minute at 28.8 connection speeds. 
If you have a chance to log on tonight or tomorrow, that would be great; 
we'll be doing load testing for the next few days, but especially tonight 
and tomorrow morning. Of course, you're welcome to come back for a quick 
sociable game whenever you like. 
Thanks very much for taking the time to read this mail; I hope you'll check 
out our site too. 
If you have any questions, comments, or just want to harass me for sending 
this mail, please feel free to do so! :-) 
Thanks again, 
Mike Sellers 
The Big Network 
<a href="http://www.bignetwork.com/" eudora="autourl">www.bignetwork.com 
 
</a></html>
Hmm, Mark,
Yes, there seems to be a bubbling swell of home grown world projects involving the use of Java3D, very hopeful. Performance issues are still a concern tho. I joined the HIT Lab at U washington as a visiting scholar and they are doing a 3D java peer to peer multuser platform called the virtual playground. I think the tools are arriving to make such a platform build less costly, especially if it is done open source (with the parallel increase in time/complexity and communications costs). I think we are coming to a time, perhaps this year, when such a platform build is feasible and the team members are identifiable. Core funding, team structure, putting a box around the spec, end user application, would remain to be worked out. Of course, would i be involved? I have been dancing around this one for 3 years now, and if there was sustaining funding for the effort, yes. I am however building a business on content on the AW platform and as it gradually improved, horizons are opening there.
Lets continue Mark. I would love to continue the dialogue.
All the best of the new year to you..
Bruce
At 09:51 PM 12/9/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Bruce Damer wrote:
>
> NASA budgeting something for such and effort would yield
> wondrous fruit indeed!
>
>I should explain some of my conduct. The essence of my problem is
>that I've been hamstrung by uncertainty about my project's budget
>for months. Things have become clear in the last couple of weeks,
>although the level of funding is less than it was to have been.
>This uncertainty delayed hiring anyone from March until
>September (when I finally had to take a chance) as well as most
>other expenses.
>
>The second problem is that we were switched from a pot of money
>that could support a project that was 50% outreach related to
>internal NASA Artificial Intelligence research funds, for which
>outreach is not explicitly supported. This has moved the criteria
>for success much closer to engineering support. My compromise is
>to go for a combination of engineering support and graduate level
>training. (I'll tell you much more about the specific plan if
>you're interested.)
>
>This switch also reduced our budget somewhat. The original budget
>could cover 4 full-time people. The makeup of the project team
>was determined not by me, but by the funders and, it includes a
>professor at Northwestern and one at the University of West
>Florida and associated clouds of grad students. (That left one
>person here at Ames plus me).
>
>Now, the budget will cover between 2 and 3. UWF is likely to drop
>out. Moreover we almost immediately have to start proposing again
>for next year. (We were originally promised 2 years of stable
>funds to start.)
>
>The point of mentioning all this is to say that it has been my
>goal to support some external work, either with you or someone
>else appropriate. I have not been able to do this so far, but I
>am continuing to try to work it out. I'd say the odds are 50-50
>that I could fund something small this year. If I get funding
>next year, then I will be able to fund something.
>
>So my situation is good in that I have funding through September
>and possibly further, depending upon what happens in the next
>funding round.
>
>I am specifically interested in open source efforts to create a
>multi-user, 3d, scriptable, customizable .... world infrastructure
>that is at the level of or better than something like
>ActiveWorlds. Do you know of any efforts or talk like that?
>(You've mentioned there may be some interest in reimplementing
>activeworlds on the part of some of the original developers.) I
>think the Struck project is certainly interesting, but it isn't
>what I had in mind.
> - Mark
>
>
Karen,
Yes it was wonderful to see Eric again! I was driving right by your front door yesterday and wondering how you were. I do have fond memories about our work together and know we will be involved in projects in the future.
Say, do you think Java3D is ready to be used as a platform to build a virtual world platform? Lots of people are asking me or trying to start their own efforts.
Who is patrick? Who worked with us in biota?
pfm@dform.com (pfmahoney)
pls forward if he is at this address..
VWsim was reallly great, people right in our own mold. We may be designing a virtual confernece for them, like avatars98.
bruce

At 02:25 PM 1/21/99 -0800, you wrote:
>hi bruce
>
>i heard your talk at berkeley was pretty interesting ---eric paulos told me
>about it!
>how did the vwsim talk go? do you remember what that guy patrick's email was
>again?
>i ran into him yesterday and was going to forward him your party info and he
>told me his email
>but i forgot it...
>
>how've you been?
>
>if i don't see you at your party ---happy birthday in advance!
>
>-km
>
yes --that was patrick ---pfm i'll try it again... i'm glad he recognized me cause
i didn't recognize him at first...
yesterday i was just thinking about the java version of nerves again... how's that
coming along? i played with java3d back when it was in alpha -i'm sure its much
better now. at that time interactivity was bad but rendering of canned animation
was ok... i don't know how good the vrml loader is now ---there's a lightwave
loader as well...its definately worth doing some kind of project on for demo
purposes -it'll be the case again where certain things have to be installed on the
user's machine first if they want to view it... so its not total web idiot-proof
and transparent yet...but worth working with for proof of concept and demo
stuff...
certainly keep me posted of upcoming projects ---be good to do something on the
side again...so i'd be glad to help... i seem to have to do that when i have a
full time job for some reason... any plans for siggraph or ars this year?
cheers -km
Bruce Damer wrote:
> Karen,
> Yes it was wonderful to see Eric again! I was driving right by your front
> door yesterday and wondering how you were. I do have fond memories about
> our work together and know we will be involved in projects in the future.
>
> Say, do you think Java3D is ready to be used as a platform to build a
> virtual world platform? Lots of people are asking me or trying to start
> their own efforts.
>
> Who is patrick? Who worked with us in biota?
> pfm@dform.com (pfmahoney)
> pls forward if he is at this address..
>
> VWsim was reallly great, people right in our own mold. We may be designing
> a virtual confernece for them, like avatars98.
>
> bruce
>
> At 02:25 PM 1/21/99 -0800, you wrote:
> >hi bruce
> >
> >i heard your talk at berkeley was pretty interesting ---eric paulos told me
> >about it!
> >how did the vwsim talk go? do you remember what that guy patrick's email was
> >again?
> >i ran into him yesterday and was going to forward him your party info and he
> >told me his email
> >but i forgot it...
> >
> >how've you been?
> >
> >if i don't see you at your party ---happy birthday in advance!
> >
> >-km
> >
>
> DigitalSpace Corporation
> 343 Soquel Avenue
> Suite 70
> Santa Cruz CA 95062 USA

At 11:53 AM 2/4/99 -0800, you wrote:
>Gerald, try the worm and other applets of chris laurel at:
>http://www.best.com/~claurel/java/index.html
>it will remind you of something..
>
>bruce
yeah, nice stuff. sometimes it's pretty impressive what a little
java hacking produces, isn't it.
---
Gerald de Jong, Beautiful Code B.V.
Rotterdam, The Netherlands, Tel. +31655893940
http://www.beautifulcode.nl
ever encountered this?
http://www.xml.com/xml/pub/1999/01/3dml/3dml.html
---
Gerald de Jong, Beautiful Code B.V.
Rotterdam, The Netherlands, Tel. +31655893940
http://www.beautifulcode.nl

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