SocioAnthro SIG
Transcript for the Online Reading Group

The following meeting took place in Active Worlds TheU on 26 September 1998.

In attendance (by order of appearance):
Digigardner: Bruce Damer
Joyful Pilgrim: Ruth Peltier
taylor: T.L.Taylor
Paulix: Paul Mcilvenny
Kilesa: ???
Time Traveler: ???
Selda: Michele ???
Herbert: ???
Ola: Ola Fosheim Grøstad
Sylvio: ???
Sand: ???
Patrice: ???
Glitha: Amber Eble
MockingBird: Chris Langton
Gypsy8: Shelley Bibeau
Calunga: H.Ch.Kistner

This transcript provided by Paul Mcilvenny. Pictures by Bruce Damer. Thanks to both! Please send name additions/corrections to T.L.Taylor.

two additional pictures

Digigardener: you can log this text directly you know
Joyful Pilgrim: yep you set your visibility to 120 and it is a very good
Digigardener: Options Chat, log to file
taylor: btw jp, that's a heck of an outfit you have on. quite a change
 from ds < lol > ;)
Digigardener: yes, good idea
Digigardener: jp, who and where are you in the rl
taylor: yep, i'll start a log around 1 bruce. can you get a screenshot for me
Digigardener: yup
taylor: thanks
Digigardener: oh, someone flying in, turn around!
Digigardener: hi paulix
Digigardener: look up
taylor: bruce, i'm shocked. you use the term "rl"?? < g >
paulix: hi
Digigardener: behind you
Digigardener: hehhe
Digigardener: u are in flight
taylor: < lol > heyya up there
taylor: from here you look like you are on a snowmobile
paulix: flying in from the north
taylor: ah, maybe you are < g >
paulix: santa claus
Digigardener: you part of socioanthro?
taylor: < lol >
paulix: i think so... :)
taylor: good to meet you paulix
paulix: and u all
taylor: do i know you in some other incarnation? < g >
paulix: is this the place to meet?
taylor: yep
paulix: i don't think so
taylor: wow, very cool transport < g >
Joyful Pilgrim: I have no imagination I am the same name in all worlds
taylor: < g > jp
paulix: flying in from Denmark... u need cool transport
taylor: < lol > ah, wonderful!
taylor: glad to see our attempts at finding a good time drew in some
 non-u.s. folks. well, folk right now < g >
taylor: hello seagull < g >
paulix: it's 7pm here... but should i be out socialising in RL???
Kilesa: :)
Digigardener: bruce damer here from califiornia
taylor: ahhh, kelisa!! good to see you :)
Digigardener: but i am in a hotel room in milwaukee wisconsin!
Joyful Pilgrim: Hello Kilesia
taylor: < lol > we should've guessed bruce
taylor: whatcha doing in wisconsin?
Digigardener: wow good crwod!
Digigardener: crowd
Kilesa: hi JP :)
taylor: heh, and it's not even 1 yet
taylor: bruce, you realize we are twins ay? < g >
Joyful Pilgrim: Hello Time Travler
taylor: i was asking bruce to model avs for me earlier ;)
Time Travler: Hi Joyful Pilgrim
taylor: heyya tt
Time Travler: Hello Taylor
paulix: hi TT
Digigardener: well this is grea,
Digigardener: we will have to get a good group photo
Kilesa: hi TT
taylor: < lol > bruce
taylor: so paulix, do you kinda just hang out on your hovercraft? < g >
Time Travler: Hi Kilesa
Time Travler: hi diggigardener
Digigardener: see the sign
Digigardener: guys, turn around and see the black sign
paulix: sorry... i was away... hanging in
Digigardener: i just put there
Joyful Pilgrim: Indeed nice sign LOL
paulix: beautific
Time Travler: neat
taylor: heh
Digigardener: so what is the topic TL, pedagogical worlds?
taylor: actually, it was on the cmu study
paulix: or deep blues?
taylor: but, we will have to see how many folks were actually able
 to get the article
Digigardener: how about that
paulix: i attempted to read it... slugged through the stats
taylor: looks good
taylor: ah, you were one of the smart ones to pull it ahead of time then
Joyful Pilgrim: I need it for a paper I was writing so I got is early
taylor: their server has been down all morning
taylor: oh, you got it too jp? cool
paulix: i'm not sure if i was smart to read it :-)
taylor: now i'm feeling like a goof for having procrastinated < g >
taylor: < g > paulix
paulix: don't put off tomorrow...
taylor: yeah yeah ;)
taylor: hmm, i don't suppose anyone has a dig copy they can throw up
 on a server somewhere?
Digigardener: well, shall we get ready for a group photo?
taylor: don't want to wait for the others bruce?
paulix: sorry...
Time Travler: Ok
Joyful Pilgrim: I have the file I think
Time Travler: group photo :-)
Joyful Pilgrim: Let me look
Digigardener: if you all stand where I am now..
taylor: jp, do you have a site you can put it up at?
Joyful Pilgrim: no but is it too big to ICQ to you?
Digigardener: just email the html to me and I can put it up right here
taylor: hmm, i'm not on my reg machine and i don't think i have icq on
 this one
taylor: cool. thanks bruce
Digigardener: as an attachement file
taylor: i don't think jp has your email address?
Digigardener: reach me via our Webmaster
taylor: < brb >
Digigardener: come on all forward for the photo in the meantime
Joyful Pilgrim: BRB
Digigardener: stand by me, like the song says
paulix: shall we join arms? :)
selda: hello?
Time Travler: Back sorry
Digigardener: yup, stand right here
Time Travler: Had someone at the door
Digigardener: stand by the sign here and i will go in front and take the shot
taylor: hello selda
Digigardener: where kilesa is
Digigardener: good taylor
selda: hi someone making a log of the discussion?
Digigardener: you can all log it by setting in Options Chat
taylor: yep, we will start the log in a few. still waiting for folks to arrive
selda: I can't stay very long....
taylor: right, everyone can make their own copy as well if they like
paulix: i'm recording this to video... if nobody minds?
Time Travler: How is this Digigardener
Joyful Pilgrim: On its way I had to find the right floppy
Digigardener: ok, everyone stand where time trav and taylor and kilesa are
taylor: ah, too bad. selda, what is your name on the list?
Digigardener: paulix, come forward
paulix: ok?
Digigardener: video away
taylor: selda, come forward and get in this picture < g >
taylor: bruce has been trying to corall us for awhille now < g >
paulix: baa baa
Digigardener: ok, ready
taylor: < lol >
Digigardener: smile
selda: Taylor, I'm Michele...we're on a couple of lists
Time Travler: :-)
taylor: ahh, hiya :)
selda: :-)
Digigardener: selda come into the picture
Digigardener: walk forward
Digigardener: to the sign
selda: here?
Joyful Pilgrim: I am being careful usually evertime i more very far in
 active worlds i change worlds
Joyful Pilgrim: my aim is not too good
taylor: ack, not a good thing jp < g >
paulix: wow! < g >
Digigardener: shot
Time Travler: ok
taylor: heh, you almost ran over my toes there paulix
Joyful Pilgrim: Kelesia do not let your altar ego see that avatar
paulix: sorry...
Kilesa: :)
taylor: < lol >
paulix: lolly
herbert: (
taylor: ah, hello two new folks!
selda: brb
Digigardener: ok, got great pictures, i will send them to you taylor
taylor: bruce, you are going to have to retake this when more folks arrive :)
Time Travler: Hi Herbert
taylor: come on over herbert and whoever the other person is < g >
Digigardener: we can do pix on the tour
Digigardener: yes, get into the picture
herbert: where
taylor: < lol > i can just picture you at parties bruce
Time Travler: JP don't back up that is a teleport back there
taylor: come forward herbert
herbert: ok
Digigardener: i am impossible
Time Travler: oops
taylor: < lol > i bet
paulix: pass the volavents
Time Travler: she already did
Digigardener: walk toward us herbert
Joyful Pilgrim: I told you all that I would do that
Digigardener: hey tourists
taylor: < lol > jp
Digigardener: ola hello
Ola: Hi
herbert: whar's up?
Time Travler: Hi Ola
taylor: ahh, hello ola! good to meet you finally :)
herbert: hi
paulix: hej ola
Joyful Pilgrim: Hi ola
taylor: and herbert, do i know you by another name?
Digigardener: anyone running on a macintosh?
Ola: Gee, didn't know Bruce and Taylor were twins?!! :)
herbert: guess not
taylor: < g >
taylor: < lol > i know amazing ay?
Digigardener: there, i am now a harold
Time Travler: Macintosh?? No Way
herbert: neither did i
taylor: heh. he was modeling avs for me earlier
taylor: that's much better bruce < g >
taylor: ah, another new person. hello over there!
herbert: (:
taylor: come on over
Sylvio: hello:o)
Digigardener: wow, now we might be getting strangers
Ola: :offers everyone a cup of tea..
Time Travler: Hello Sylvio
taylor: you think bruce?
Ola: Hmms.
paulix: sip.. mmmm
herbert: coooooool
Digigardener: ready for a tour of TheU
taylor: well, maybe once everyone is here we can do intros
Time Travler: Ok
Joyful Pilgrim: I tried to use a mac in the computer lab.....never even
 managed to turn it on
Sylvio: yes
herbert: yep
Digigardener: flashcrowd!
taylor: oh no, let's wait a sec bruce
taylor: more folks might still be coming
Time Travler: hehehe jp
Ola: I was here the other day to get a preview :-) The virtualhighschool
 was a lot of fun!
Digigardener: this is an impressive group, whre is everone from
taylor: sylvio, are you here for the meeting?
Time Travler: United States
Digigardener: we will go to the vhs too
Digigardener: california
Ola: Norway
herbert: germany#
paulix: denamrk
Sylvio: Canada but i was only visiting
Joyful Pilgrim: Tennessee here
taylor: ah < g >
taylor: cambridge, u.s.
Time Travler: Yep Tennessee for me also
Sylvio: meeting about what?
taylor: this is a meeting of the socioanthro sig for the contact consortium
taylor: a reading group
Digigardener: hello patrice, welcome to the meeting
Patrice: Hello there !
herbert: how old are u all
taylor: hi patrice
paulix: hvordan gar det, ola?
Digigardener: Patric worked on the earliest virtual university in
 Florence italy
herbert: hi
Joyful Pilgrim: Hello Patrice
Sylvio: 19
taylor: ah, wonderful
Patrice: Hi all
Sand: Hi
taylor: i'm still looking for her ,g>
taylor: hi sand. come on over
Time Travler: Hi sand
taylor: are you here for the s/a meeting?
Joyful Pilgrim: Hello sand
Sand: I'm glad to see you
Patrice: what a change since Florence
taylor: can folks say if they got a chance to read the article for today?
taylor: that server has been down
Joyful Pilgrim: I did
Time Travler: I skimmed it looked good
taylor: anyone else?
Digigardener: yes,there is so much more going on in virtual worlds pedagogy now
Ola: I did Taylor!!
taylor: < g >
taylor: 3. hmm, others?
Joyful Pilgrim: did bruce get my e-mail ?
herbert: why are monica lewinskis cheeks so fat?
Kilesa: I read it awhile back :)
Ola: 4, I read it twicw.
Digigardener: got it
Ola: twice that is
taylor: i don't know, though, i'm beginning to think we are out of luck on it
taylor: twice. impressive ola ;)
taylor: < g > kilesa
taylor: well, we can either try to discuss it, despite everyone not having
 read it..
Ola: Hmm.. but only half of it.. it got kinda boring in the middle.
taylor: or have bruce take us on a tour, etc of theu
taylor: opinions?
paulix: lots of stats
taylor: < nods >
Joyful Pilgrim: too bad it wqas the end part that got interesting
taylor: which would folks like to do? article or tour?
Digigardener: making it into html now
Joyful Pilgrim: When he got around to drawing the conclusion it was
 very interesting
Time Travler: What will the tour consist of? The teleports here or all of
 active worlds?
Ola: Oh yeah, but I did read the beginning and the end. HEHE
taylor: thanks bruce. if nothing else, we can redirect people to it
taylor: < g > ola
Kilesa: teleports are scary :(
taylor: < lol >
taylor: i think that's the quotable quote from this session kilesa < g >
Kilesa: :)
taylor: hmm, so, no preferences on what we do?
paulix: r we socialising yet?
paulix: :)
taylor: < lol >
Digigardener: find the article at < no longer available at ccon >.
Joyful Pilgrim: I would love to discuss the article but then i read it LOL
taylor: < g >
Time Travler: :-)
Ola: I'm not sure if I agree with how they got to the conclusion, but I
 kinda agree with the conclusion anyways..
taylor: i've not had a chance to read it myself. so i won't have much to say
Digigardener: it is a mess but i quickly converted it from .doc
herbert: why are monica lewinskis cheeks so fat??because she tries to
 hide evidences
taylor: ola, can you summerize their conclusion?
Ola: Oh you had it on a wordfile??
Digigardener: ok, want to do the tour first or the discussion
Joyful Pilgrim: sorry I just d/l it for myself so I did nto try too hard LOL
Digigardener: herbert, pls watch your language, this is a meeting here
herbert: soory
Time Travler: can we not have that being discussed today
Ola: Conclusion: we should consider social implications of the internet when
 we design it. HEHE
taylor: hmm, maybe we should just do the tour bruce. seems we aren't quite
 all up to speed on the article < g >
taylor: < lol > ah, nice and broad
herbert: I#ll go cu
Time Travler: It is bad enought that the presidents troubles beat out an
 earthquake in ohio and the Hurricane hitting flordia
taylor: okay, tour! :)
Digigardener: everyone, if you doubple click on the CMU study sign you will
 get the article
herbert: bye
paulix: and a lot of wild speculation about causal mechanisms to cover the
 stats results
Ola: "Both as a nation and as individual consumers, we must balance the value
 of the Internet for information, communication, and"
Digigardener: on the black sign, above your heads there, i have linked in
 the article
taylor: yeah, from what little i read, the causality issue is one of the
 most problematic paulix
Digigardener: should come up inyour explorer frame or in netscape separately
paulix: usually is with quantitative studies
taylor: < g >
paulix: what we need is quality < g >
taylor: easier said than done ;)
Joyful Pilgrim: also as far as I could see none of their subjects had
 discovered virtual worlds
taylor: ah, interesting jp. how do you think that would've altered the outcomes?
Joyful Pilgrim: He mentions that the study was done before ICQ
taylor: is there a breakdown in it of the kinds of activities folks were
 engaged in?
Glitha: but this article seems awfully skewed
taylor: what do you think they wouldn't get from chat rooms jp?
Ola: much disengagement from real life, it can also be harmful. Until the
 technology evolves to be more beneficial, people should moderate how much
 they use the Internet and monitor the uses to which they put it.
taylor: hi glitha
Glitha: and in the opposite direction considering the "sponsers"
Glitha: hi
taylor: glitha, do i know you from the list? trying to get a sense of who
 is here :)
Glitha: if anything the net has increased my involvement with family
Digigardener: folks, i just made the CMU study document much better,
 press refresh on your browsers, or click on the CMU study sign again
Joyful Pilgrim: his point seems to be that the internet ispolates people anf
 causes them to have more superficial relationshipa
taylor: some interesting terms there ola. in particular, disengagement and
 real life
taylor: < nods > and it sounds like there is some disagreement here with that idea
Joyful Pilgrim: I can see how surfing and news groups could so that
Joyful Pilgrim: but VR worlds work the other way
Glitha: RL needs me
Ola: Yeah Taylor, especially the REAL LIFE thing..
taylor: < nods to ola >
Digigardener: Vritual Worlds have me flying all over the earth meeting new people
Ola: But, I agree that when making software for schools one should try to
 focus on socializing in homework, not only reference.
taylor: i didn't catch if someone answered, do they detail in any way the
 specifics of what their study folks were doing online?
Joyful Pilgrim: I KNOW that i am more social now than before I found WA in
 either world
Kilesa: maybe if you have an avatar it makes it less superficial too - as
 opposed to just chat rooms I mean
Joyful Pilgrim: yes they do
taylor: interesting
paulix: do they?
Joyful Pilgrim: and he mentioned that even ICQ was not avaoiable
taylor: < nods >
Digigardener: but using virtual worlds has such a powerful effect on my mine,
 i see the outside world differently
taylor: it's interesting bruce, you are saying your online time has
 increased your offline connections?
Joyful Pilgrim: and they also say that in chat rooms you are required to
 remain on topic
paulix: there wasn't any analysis of content and online activities in detail
Joyful Pilgrim: so they are takling about the ones that are opart of newsgroups
taylor: < nods > i really think being specific about activities is key
Digigardener: defininitely so
paulix: they recorded total online time per week... but what were they up to?
taylor: bruce, do you think if you weren't involved in worlds it would be the
 same? do you have past net usage to compare it to?
Digigardener: i think they are running on 3 to 5 year old technology, as is
 usual in academia (present company excluded :)
Ola: Heh, Digi... We had Jonathan Grudin teaching at our Uni. He said you live
 out in the woods with the virtual worlds.
taylor: < g >
taylor: < lol >
Joyful Pilgrim: < G >
Time Travler: Who is Grudin?
taylor: the truth about bruce's offline life revealed! ;)
Digigardener: yes, i spend most online time in email, yes, Jonathan, is a super
Digigardener: i live on a farm in the redwood forest and use a heavy dose of
 nature to counterbalance the effects of heavy world use
taylor: hmm, so it sounds like there is a sense amongst this group that they
 really should've talked about exactly what folks were doing online and that
 that is important to the story?
Digigardener: hippies in the santa cruz mtns use to us gunja!
paulix: vr sickness...
taylor: < g >
taylor: it's interesting though bruce, that you counterpose nature and
 technology. but that's a whole other discussion < g >
Digigardener: in fact, NASA has characterized disorientation in virtual world
 users along with "orbital syndrome"..
Digigardener: which shuttle astronauts experience when on EVA
Digigardener: hell chris langton!
Digigardener: hello that is
Ola: HEHE, I kinda do the same thing. I basically have no social contact with
 the people here out on the countryside. Pop back into the city every now and
 then. But there I long for the fresh air.. taylor: hrm, "vr sickness" and
 disorientation are very particular symptoms
MockingBird: Hell yourself! < grin >
paulix: heim toys with it in his VIRTUAL REALISM
taylor: hello there
Digigardener: we are talking about the CMU study, click on the sign to get it
taylor: yep paulix
Digigardener: Chris is a pioneer in the artificial life worlds.. which we are
 hoping to see soon
taylor: i don't really go in for dichotimizing things this way. but it
 interests me that folks do
taylor: ah, wonderful. good to have you join us chris. are you on the list
 as well?
paulix: deconstruct or bust!!! :)
taylor: < lol >
Ola: Regarding the study, I do actually agree that there is less substance in
 internet relationships..
taylor: really ola? why's that? or hmm, based on what?
Ola: The lack of a possibility for physical touch is missing.
paulix: depends on what is 'substance', i s'pose
paulix: smell...
taylor: < nods > good point paulix. it strikes me that there are lots of
 "definitional" issues woven into that study
Ola: I know that meeting people I have known for say years online does have
 an impact.
Joyful Pilgrim: beyond a "romantic " relationship Is physical touch important?
MockingBird: not on the list as far as I know - just getting the study up on
 the web-page - I'll be reading while I'm listening...
Ola: Yep PG
taylor: < nods to mockingbird >
Ola: I have near zero physical contact here out on the countryside.
Ola: It is lonely even with internet.
Gypsy8: Helleo everyone, I'll just listen for a bit < grin >
taylor: and how do we sort out when you can have touch, of some sort, inworld?
Digigardener: a fair degree of isolation and social shyness does characterize
 a number of AW citizenry
MockingBird: < flaps wings to taylor >
taylor: hello gypsy8. welcome. you are here for the meeting?
taylor: < grins at mockingbird >
Gypsy8: Yes, I am Shelley
Digigardener: chis, does this world help you socialize with the rest of your
 family, your sons?
taylor: really bruce? that's intereseting
Gypsy8: Abit of a lurker I'm afraid
Joyful Pilgrim: Hello Shelly
taylor: ah, welcome. np :)
Time Travler: Hi Shelly
Digigardener: the folks at the Reunion might have been indicative
Gypsy8: Loved your book Digi
Digigardener: hey, a book reader, thanks!
taylor: hmm, i think that is a tough call bruce. it's a self-selected group
Ola: taylor, i think the possibility of physical consequences are important.
 (even to disinhibition)
MockingBird: indirectly at the moment - we are never in at the same time, but
 the kids have socialized a great deal with other kids...
Ola: Even if the possibility is only 0.01%
taylor: hmm, can you say a bit more about that ola?
Time Travler: Yep Digi I finally found your book on amazon .com and got it
 very nice reading and great cdrom
MockingBird: Colin has worked with other kids on building towns - and it has
 been very good for him, I think..
Digigardener: the Univ Washington HIT lab is studying the clinical psychological
 effects of world us
MockingBird: Colin is 12
taylor: ah, mockingbird, you are an online family?
Ola: Taylor, being linked to a chain does matter, even if you do not intend to
 leave. Staying behind a solid glass wall does matter even if you do not want
 to move.
Joyful Pilgrim: that is a study I want to reak
Joyful Pilgrim: read
Time Travler: lol
MockingBird: yes, but as I say, it would be interesting if we could be on
Glitha: I'm back
Glitha: sorry for crashing your group
taylor: hmm, ola, i think we will have to have a session just on embodiment to
 tease that one out < g >
Ola: Multiple embodiement is FUN.
Kilesa: :)
taylor: < g > ah yep, that it is ;)
taylor: so, did anyone actually find the conclusions of the study legitimate?
taylor: or some part of it useful?
MockingBird: 'fraid I have to go, but I would like to join this group..I did
 get an undergraduate degree in anthro, how do I join the list?
Glitha: still reading
Digigardener: well, i think they did not evaluate the overall life changes,
 the fact people do widen their circle
Glitha: just got back
Digigardener: chris
taylor: mockingbird
Gypsy8: I'm concerned about reccommendations to "control" the Internet
MockingBird: OK - thanks! - I'll be back (as Arnold says...)
paulix: it is interesting to read thew study with their press release on the
 same web site
taylor: what could they have done different to get at that bruce?
taylor: < nods > yeah, i noticed that too paulix
Glitha: all I can give is anecdotal evidence
Digigardener: also they did not note that tv watching is a much less social,
 lonely and draining activity and that online time directly replaces this
Digigardener: an upgrade?
paulix: they are cautious about generalising in the interview
taylor: < lol >
Glitha: but I am now in contact with a group of people
taylor: i think they felt some of the backlash/critique against the study by
 other researchers
Glitha: with whom I used to live on a commune
Ola: I think that people will use the net more activly in a say 2 years
 period when everything is new, then they will sortof balance it of..
Glitha: a energy therapies group
Glitha: my entire family
taylor: < nods > a key point ola. that rampup time is really a whole different
Ola: I can see this among the CS students I think (informally)
paulix: are there many communes'/intentiohnal commmunities meeting online?
taylor: interesting glitha
Glitha: and friends who being as busy as I find e-mail a sure way tto reach
 each other
taylor: i think so paulix, though, i don't have any hard numbers
Gypsy8: Has anyone studied the effect of reading on social interaction?
taylor: reading?
Ola: Physical friendships have been more lasting than my virtual ones.
taylor: ah, i getcha gypsy8 < g >
Glitha: good point Gypsy8
Time Travler: Yep good point
Gypsy8: Yes, reading books takes away from social contact also.
Joyful Pilgrim: indeed!
Gypsy8: Makes me wonder about our attitude to new media
Glitha: and as a youngster I would agree that reading had a negative effect
 on my socialization
paulix: but builds a reading community...
taylor: it is fascinating that so much money would be spent on this question.
 and that they press release would end up so hyped
Ola: Email is good for maintaining physical ones though.
Glitha: I'm all for the net
Gypsy8: reading is sort of sacrosanct-no one ever says read less chit chat more.
Glitha: got my car that way
Glitha: got my new job that way
taylor: ola, the lasting question is tough. does lasting have to be the
 final arbitor?
Digigardener: the rise of the net should have increased reding and typing skills,
Glitha: the only thing I do less of is watch TV
taylor: actually, historically reading got a lot of the same bad wrap that
 comps are getting now
Digigardener: remember years ago with MTV everyone was worried about video
Glitha: especially fiction
taylor: henry jenkins (at mit) presented something on this once and it was
Ola: taylor , please explain the word "arbitor"
Glitha: the bible was ok
Digigardener: or that it would be the only literacy?
Joyful Pilgrim: actually the question is not is the net good or bad the
 question should be how can we make it better
Glitha: anything else was the devil's handiwork
paulix: The study has hit the British press: in New Statesman magazine, the
 article is called 'Sad, Lonely? Log off and get out: Of course people who surf
 are depressed"
taylor: sorry, i just mean ola, is lasting the key thing by which we will
 measure stuff by?
Gypsy8: lasting can't be the key
Glitha: like people who use the telephone are depressed?
taylor: ah, that's terrible paulix. now that's depressing
Glitha: makes about as much sense
Ola: Taylor, I think some stability in friendships is good.
Gypsy8: history has its share of golden ages and golden moments
Digigardener: of course we need "threaded conversation literacy" now! :)
taylor: hmm, stability and lasting strike me as someone different
taylor: < g > yep bruce
Glitha: Stability does not necessarily mean proximity
Gypsy8: aha
Ola: I'm not sure if Internet is the ultimate solution for lonely people.
taylor: i doubt there is one ultimate solution for lonely people
Glitha: I am as good freinds with those I haven't seen in years as those I
 see daily
Ola: You are also very vounerable when it comes to emotional lonelieness.
Glitha: maybe better in some cases
Gypsy8: I'm not sure loneliness and media are really that connected
Glitha: and why would we ask the net to be some sort of cureall
taylor: as in, they were lonely when they logged on gypsy?
Glitha: that's as illogical as blaming it
Gypsy8: true, anyway put me in a barrel of humans and I could still be lonely
taylor: < g >
Glitha: lonliness does have a delicious side to it
paulix: and persecuted, gypsy...
Glitha: for short periods
Digigardener: do you all want to move to the stimulating geometry room in the
 VHS to continue the conversation?
Glitha: why are we expected to be up and happy all the time
Gypsy8: I need distructions
Ola: That's the fun room!
taylor: i would suggest we stay put to finish this discussion or end and move
 to the tour :)
Digigardener: a nice break
Gypsy8: direction < g >
Kilesa: does getting there require use of a teleporter? :)
taylor: how about before we move on, can everyone just go around and say their
 offline name for me?
taylor: for the log?
Digigardener: bruce damer
taylor: i'm t.l.taylor
Gypsy8: Shelley Bibeau St. Paul Mn
Glitha: oh I'm I included?
Ola: Well, I think it is important to distinguish between maintaining and
 establishing friendships online.
Time Travler: I perfer not to
Joyful Pilgrim: Ruth Peltier
taylor: everyone who is here is in the log < g >
paulix: paul mcilvenny
taylor: okay tt
Glitha: I just popped in here by lucky hapinstance
taylor: others?
Glitha: Amber Eble
Ola: I'm personally more interested in the establishing bit.
Calunga: H.Ch.Kistner - SP - Brazil
taylor: bruce, can you get a shot with this fuller group?
taylor: ah, brazil. welcome!
Calunga: Hi
paulix: come on down... brazil
taylor: did we get everyone name wise?
taylor: bruce, did we get a new screenshot?
Digigardener: by the way if you look up i just put another sign
Digigardener: which if you click on it links to the socioanthro home page
Glitha: depression stats
taylor: i suspect we can continue this discussion on the list if folks are
 interested. maybe when we've all had a chance to read the article
taylor: or at least, those of us who didn't get to yet < g >
Digigardener: new shot
Joyful Pilgrim: great idea
paulix: hee hee
paulix: never procrastinate tomorrow...
taylor: there were lots of fascinating points raised that could really be
 discussed in more depth
taylor: < g > thanks paulix
Gypsy8: yes
paulix: u r welcome
taylor: i think bruce would like to give us a tour of the theu and show us
 some of what they've done
Gypsy8: their recommendations were interesting
taylor: bruce, are we lining up for a pic?
taylor: i guess everyone crowd over here for a picture :)
Digigardener: i got a new shot and sent it to you already
taylor: oh? okay. cool
Digigardener: shot
Time Travler: :-)
paulix: fall downs dead...
taylor: as with all the logs, this one will be at the website later today
Time Travler: great
taylor: bruce, would you like to lead the way?
Digigardener: ok
Digigardener: eveyrone go thru the VHS geometry portal behind me
Ola: Oh no, Bruce killed the bird in two shots1
taylor: < g >
Digigardener: here
paulix: scary!!!
taylor: i think the thing i love most about aw is the sky < g >
Time Travler: Hi jp
Digigardener: if you are below the floor
Ola: Really, I love Atlantis.
Digigardener: float up
taylor: oh yeah, atlantis is cool
Digigardener: hold Shift down and press the plus key
Gypsy8: Give me a week to download
Digigardener: or join me
Digigardener: we can keep talkin while this downloads
Time Travler: jp step back here
Time Travler: ok
Gypsy8: shoulda cached this last night %(
Ola: Wot's so scary about teleporting?
paulix: too much star trek...
Time Travler: This is pretty neat Digigardner
taylor: < lol >
Digigardener: this is the geometry gallery of the univ california virtual
 high school
Digigardener: an experiemnt for uc santa cruz
Ola: OH... Never seen Start Trek.
Time Travler: neat
paulix: Wot!? No trek in Norway?
taylor: folks who are below the floor, hold the shift key and hit the + on
 the numberpad
Ola: paulix, not on public TV anyway.
paulix: zombies rise from the floor...
taylor: < g >
Digigardener: all around are images for complexity and geometry issues, and
 in the center..
Digigardener: is a tensegrity structure genearted by gerald de jong
taylor: wow, some of these images are incredible bruce
Digigardener: i see you all turning
taylor: < g >
Digigardener: this is one of 6 wings of the high school
Ola: Mebbie taylor likes flowers.
taylor: < lol > i'm enjoying zoning out on some of these ;)
taylor: bruce, how many students have come through here so far?
Ola: "zoning out"?
taylor: zoning out. hmm, like spacing out. kinda like staring at something
 and thinking "wow" ,g>
Gypsy8: it's the season < g >
taylor: < g >
Ola: season for what?
taylor: oooo, come see the fractals everyone! :)
Digigardener: this was shown at a special conference for the chancellors and the
 wholce uc system
paulix: depends whose season...
taylor: what was the response bruce?
Digigardener: we would like to hold a conference on virtual worlds in education
 next year
taylor: cool ay ola?
Ola: Good idea digi.
Ola: yep
Digigardener: very postivie, they funded a version of the ucsc campus, now
 being built for admissions use
Gypsy8: Great idea
taylor: wow
Digigardener: if you want details contact bonnie devarco at
taylor: bruce, i might've missed it. who made the images in here?
Ola: When I saw this place the other day it kinda changed how I viewed AW.
Digigardener: whole bunch of folks, all with permissions
taylor: ah
Digigardener: there is a tutorial office,
Ola: You do click the signs taylor?
Digigardener: a language area
Digigardener: a science lab
Digigardener: etc
taylor: yep, just did and got the page. very cool
Digigardener: all about academic placement
Digigardener: remote learning for high schools in calif
Digigardener: experimental
taylor: so bruce, students are using this particular space now?
Digigardener: well, come to the Science lab with me?
Ola: Too bad we cant see what other people do. That's an area where VWs are
 generally lacking..... :-((((
taylor: do in what regard ola?
Digigardener: buckmisnster fullerenes project
Digigardener: by as student
Digigardener: righ here
Digigardener: there is arealaudio transcript by her
Ola: He was popular in the late 60s, early 70s?
Digigardener: tell everyone to join me
Glitha: ok
Digigardener: use the join feature in the contacts lis
taylor: dangit, i don't like how i keep hitting something and popping my
 browser up though
taylor: okay bruce
Digigardener: sorry, that is a bump panel
taylor: < lol > i figured
Glitha: This is name dropping but I heard Bucky Fuller sing at the Foxhole
 in Philly
Digigardener: if you have IE installed it comes up in a window in side AW
Ola: taylor, in all regards.VWs doesn't portray ppls actions...
Gypsy8: me three
Digigardener: if you like IE :)
taylor: ah, only ns on this machine
Gypsy8: choice?
Digigardener: this is a webquest ring about buckyenes
Digigardener: and the student narrates i Digigardener: it with realaudio
taylor: hmm, well, they do to a degree ola. but if you mean activity outside
 the world, no, that's true
Digigardener: if you click here you will giet the audio
Ola: eh, I meant in the world. And they don't. Except for killing. ehhee
Ola: I didn't see you click on the sign!
taylor: i must be misunderstanding you ola because certainly lots of worlds
 show what the other person is doing
taylor: ah, right, but that is more generating activity outside the world
Digigardener: well folks i have to get going now
taylor: though, i agree, in general it would be nice if the outside/inside
 line wasn't so clear
Digigardener: bookmark this teleport
Ola: Nope. it is your inworlds action.
taylor: ah, okay. thanks for the tour bruce :)
Ola: I cannot watch you and learn from it.
taylor: good to see you again!
Digigardener: you should have all hte pix from me
taylor: i follow what you mean now ola. i agree, it would be good if you could
 sometimes see what another was doing
Digigardener: i hope you all participate in Avatars 98
Digigardener: you will have a booth, time in the schedule for a discussion pod
taylor: argh! this is so frustrating. i'm stuck next to this dang bump panel
Kilesa: :)
paulix: lol
paulix: bump and boogie
taylor: < lol > thanks for all your sympathy guys
taylor: now, help!!!! < g >
Gypsy8: < g >
Ola: I'l come to your rescue TAYLOR!!
taylor: < lol >
Kilesa: can't ya fly over it?
Digigardener: join me taylor
taylor: you've been mudding too long ola < g >
Ola: HI!
Digigardener: this was a great discussion today. very multi threaded
Digigardener: enjoy the vhs and see you all at avatars 98
Ola: You are safe now... *console*
Digigardener: nov 21st saturday, all day
taylor: ack! that was bad. i had to close ns
taylor: < lol > ola
Time Travler: Ok
Gypsy8: Thanks for the tour
Calunga: Thanx - Dg....
paulix: thanx for the tour
Gypsy8: see you at A98
Ola: Leaving Bruce?
paulix: ditto :)
Joyful Pilgrim: yes thank you digi
Digigardener: you are all welcome, keep on reading and discussing
taylor: alright, i guess i will be heading off as well
Digigardener: i have to go now
Joyful Pilgrim: bye tayolr
Joyful Pilgrim: taylor
taylor: thanks all for coming out for the meeting. good to see you all!

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