Many thanks to Kilesa for providing the transcript!
taylor: thanks to everyone for showing up. it seems our speakers aren't here taylor: we are scheduled for noon pst-1:30pst "DrJanet": Taylor??? taylor: ah! janet! taylor: hello :) "DrJanet": I have been lost for a long time taylor:
sorry taylor: i think it is a bit crazy taylor: glad you made it "DrJanet": and have no idea where or what the F I am taylor: come on over here, toward the stage taylor: taylor: we'll give you a minute to orient yourself "DrJanet": Are you one of those black triangles "DrJanet": crawling around?? taylor: so, this is a session sponsored by the sociology/anthropology special interest group of the contact consortium taylor: only until the graphic loads Kilesa: I'm a bird taylor: the group started last year at the avatars conference and we've been holding taylor: periodic reading groups online as well as a ongoing email list taylor: heyya kilesa :) E N Z O: taylor is Dr Janet a speaker? taylor: yeap, janet levalley is one of our speakers today E N Z O: let me set her up as a citizen taylor: reed riner, an anthropologist, will be here as well taylor: ah, great enzo. thanks :) taylor: can i just maybe get a "show of hands" how many of our regular group members are here today? Kilesa: [well, I'm a lurker on the group] taylor: show of hands being like a yes or something E N Z O: Dr Janet... please give me your wemail boeing admin: Well, I'm a lurker. :) Haven't had much time to read it lately. taylor: "DrJanet": Hello??? "DrJanet": I am having an avatar nervous breakdown here, Taylor paulix: E N Z O: LOL taylor: E N Z O: Dr JAnet... I will get you a citizen ID E N Z O: please give me your email? taylor: while janet is getting set up, let me just intro the session taylor: several group members will be presenting their work and then we can just have a general discussion taylor: oh, a couple folks are asking about the group... taylor: check out http://www.ccon.org/socioanthro/ for more info taylor: maybe i will just give my quick spiel while janet is getting set up taylor: the topic of my very brief talk will be on digital materiality taylor: i've recently been spending a lot of time thinking about the question of materiality inworld... taylor: offline we often think of flesh and bone as making up the materiality of our coporeal bodies... taylor: but online i would suggest that these things come to be replaced by code. by software taylor: we need to begin to give serious consideration to the ways design and software structure and inform the taylor: materiality of our lives online. taylor: what kinds of functionalities, capacities, possibilities are embedded in code taylor: even before the arrival of users taylor: it's been interesting for me to be looking at moo code, in particular player classes taylor: and doing comparisons with some graphical spaces taylor: looking at the kinds of things, the assumptions about idenitity and community, built into the software "DrJanet": Taylor??? taylor: so, from the get go, even before users arrive and do many creative, engaging things, there are parameters of embodiment laid out taylor: yes janet? E N Z O: dr janet "DrJanet": Is that you again??? "DrJanet": I keep on disappearing "DrJanet": and I cannot find myself taylor: i'll pause there for any questions actually taylor: enzo, can you pow wow with janet for me? E N Z O: im trying E N Z O: Janet? taylor: thanks E N Z O: can you hear me? taylor: did anyone have questions so far? Little Cupid: LOL - too many taylor: taylor: i hear ya. feel free to dive in though. discussion is better than me rambling Zeke: sounds very interesting Taylor !! Little Cupid: Okays ;-))) taylor: E N Z O: dr janet E N Z O: hello? Zeke: please continue !! *S* taylor: oh, okay "DrJanet": Sorry. Didnm't realize you were presenting just now. taylor: heh, offline event keeps calling my attention talk about split worlds! E N Z O: can you email me? taylor: oh, no problem janet E N Z O: firstname.lastname@example.org Little Cupid: DRJanet - can you hear ENZO? He needs your email address! LOL taylor: anyway, i actually wanted to just present this as a general issue to be raised. to be thinking about E N Z O: i will call you if you send your # E N Z O: and walk you through any problems Zeke: can I start a point of discussion then ?? taylor: forms of materiality in online life. we generally consider it, or it is better put that it is generally spoken of, E N Z O: BTW I am on the Active Worlds staff taylor: as disembodied immaterial minds E N Z O: :) taylor: what i'm proposing is that one component to an understanding of embodiment online taylor: is understanding and unpacking (through looking at code and talking to designers) the ways taylor: materiality can operate in digital space "DrJanet": Enzo, I can hear you but I suppose everyone else can too huh? "DrJanet": Is there and ESP function? E N Z O: there is ... but i need to get you registered to have it taylor: okay, i think i will stop there and open the floor for discussion E N Z O: please send an email to email@example.com taylor: once janet is setup we can have her present taylor: actually, janet you are here and speaking and we can see you fine. maybe it's best to just have you dive in and not worry about tweaking the setup E N Z O: or else type yours in Zeke: Taylor ... do you think that the avatar should be personalizable ... since it represents us ?? Little Cupid: Hmmmm, I like that Zeke ;-))) taylor: do you mean more along the lines of customizability zeke? Rolu: Hi all :-) Zeke: and maybe ... the avatar should be portable from world to world ... Little Cupid: Hi Rolu ;-))) Uldor: that would be nice Zeke E N Z O: *shrugs taylor: well, i definitely think users feel greater connection and affinity to an av they have customized Zeke: well ... right now you can CHOOSE an avatar ... but you can't BE an avatar of your own making ... see what I mean ?? taylor: the portability question is fascinating and that was a vision a few years ago taylor: but i think that has dropped off some "Boston event 2": Hi alll .. E N Z O: Hi Boston "Boston event 2": We're here for the conference taylor: it's interesting zeke, if you broaden our definition of ve's to include muds (which i do) the range becomes much greater "Boston event 2": :) E N Z O: you are interupting taylor: and there are some graphical spaces that allow users to design their own Zeke: I know in my own world ... Mystery ... that conferring an avatar of my visitor's choice was one of the most requested things Haba: what about information linked to avatars? not just the 3d body taylor: heh, hiya boston :) E N Z O: taylor is speaking Haba: bodies that is... taylor: boston events 2 is ramping up, so it's cool Little Cupid: But it's discussion too ENZO? taylor: ah, like what kind of info haba? taylor: there is that function in some worlds. urls. taglines. etc. it's a fascinating idea Haba: umm, hobbies :) err...anything taylor: but, one thing, getting back to building your own av... some folks simply don't feel they have the skill to do that... Haba: interests...like in blaxxun ccpro taylor: or don't have the tools too. i think that means that when worlds operate with library systems they have to be Zeke: well ... I am just saying that if a citizen has greater control over the presentation of the avatar they use, such as customization ... it makes the experience much more personalized taylor: very thoughtful about exactly what kinda of embodiment possibilities they thus include taylor: yeah, having known interests is a fascinating idea. do we do that offline in any ways? Uldor: a custom av would have to be put on a server somewhere too E N Z O: we are writing the code for Custom avs in AW taylor: i'm always kind of interested in running a comparison that way Little Cupid: Oh, there you are Uldor. lol Zeke: cool Enzo !! E N Z O: then everyone can have whatever they like... inside a few parameters Uldor: here I am Cupid :) Little Cupid: Kewl ENZO! taylor: enzo - what are the tools folks will use to create those avs? E N Z O: and world owners can dictate the use Rolu: What about choosing different body parts - head, legs, etc - from a library? Uldor: that would be easier Rolu Haba: and of course custom sounds for avatars :) taylor: yeah, the library model has some things that really have to be considered E N Z O: There is a plugin being written for Truespace Zeke: yes ... do for avatars what the WONDERFUL interface in the AW browser did for building in general ?? E N Z O: they will have a low priced AW bundle that outputs into RWX taylor: [to enzo] do you expect most users will be able to create their own easily? are we talking gestures and all? E N Z O: probly around 30 bucks taylor: taylor: and emotes! Uldor: what will be the rules of a custom av though? size? offensive material ? Zeke: now THIS is really sounding COOL !! E N Z O: and Lifeforms is working with them to provide an animation plugin taylor: i think the vision of users creating there own stuff is very exciting Rolu: animations can be in a library too. E N Z O: was on the phone with both Seng from Credo and Terry from TS taylor: i do wonder about tools though E N Z O: there is also an av maker from cof Totoro: We don't understand all the constraints of our real world emobiment. Is vr embodiment simpler to understand? Or is it real world + vr, and therefor more complex? Zeke: well ... if the tools are simply "objects" that a world could cache ... or even just access from a common URL ... that could work !! taylor: it's a great question totoro Rolu: create your own avatar - by picking the right parts and coresponding textures, colours and animations. taylor: i think you are dead on in saying offline embodiment is quite complex Kilesa: if DrJanet is still here, check your email :) taylor: i think we haven't yet taken that into full account when thinking about online forms Zeke: Enzo ... please tell us more about the av maker from COF ... Uldor: yeah, is it freeware ? hehehe setebos: additionally, there is the question of what are we? our bodies or our ideas? Little Cupid: It's 60.00? paulix: taylor: can you say more about 'digital materiality'... what do you mean by materiality? are there avatars that matter? Rolu: I think that vr is parallel to rl setebos: an avatar displaying our ideas might be more appropriate for some - more 'real' to who they are. E N Z O: hopefully we can release it soon Rolu: it is both less and more. taylor: hmm, what do you mean by "matter" paulix? Haba: btw, Enzo. May I ask when are you going to make the aw "sound system" better? :) E N Z O: roland is working on MP3 paulix: that was my q. to u :-) E N Z O: :) taylor: ah Zeke: well taylor, I know that it makes a difference when we use the wrong "sex" of avatar ... so avs DO make a difference !! Mauz: stick to agenda Haba! :p Haba: I'm talking about aw's own mixer taylor: good point zeke Rolu: MP3? Hey I like that news :-) taylor: paulix, yeah, i do think there is a materiality to an av Zeke: and I know that some people even want to make sure they have the right hair color in their av ... LOL taylor: i think it is a product of code and design. the stuff you can kind of "touch" paulix: how is that in the code or coding? taylor: also, there is a materiality created via social space taylor: i think that is key in embodiment Little Cupid: LOL - true Zeke taylor: Uldor: I've spent alot of time picking out the right av for me in some worlds taylor: yep. folks are very invested, and understandly so, in making their avatar "feel right" Zeke: I think people want their avatar to represent them in the VW in the best possible RW light they can !! taylor: hmm, it's an interesting question. i think some folks go for direct mirroring, some go for "best list" some go for totally different Haba: I think that doesn't mean best way physically taylor: though, what i always hear in interviews is that your avatar in some ways always has a life of its own taylor: that is "gets away" from you at times Uldor: <---- totally different av Zeke: yes ... but I think most of all ... people want their avatar to match their "personality" ... Little Cupid: I try and choose the shortest av's *grin* selda: has a life of it's own?? E N Z O: welllll... there will be implementation of direct 3d soon taylor: though, personality isn't a static thing, especially for many folks once they get inworld Uldor: hehehe Cupid Zeke: Taylor ... that is soooo true !! E N Z O: (meaning in a year or so...) taylor: taylor: so many interesting threads. i want to make sure janet gets a chance to speak E N Z O: and that would allow a better mixer taylor: because she has some interesting things to say on this subject taylor: janet, are you here? taylor: and ready to speak? :) Zeke: So ... since people's personalities are not static ... it makes sense for people to be able to customize their avatars to match the changes they are going through Haba: ok, enzo :) E N Z O: direct sound taylor: good point zeke. and also the ways our avs "create" experiences for us Uldor: hmmmm facial expressions for avs ? Little Cupid: Hey kewl Zeke! Rolu: I like to have the birde and the bike avatar. Kilesa: I like the bird too cuz it can fly :) Zeke: I know this much ... the avatar we choose ... decides to a large extent how others will interact with us ... Rolu: however, I am not really a bird :-) taylor: great point zeke! Rolu: but I like the flying idea. Uldor: You're not Rolu ? Rolu: that's why I chose bird. Zeke: cool Rolu ! Haba: you hear, Mauz? :) taylor: the body is a key component in how we construct identity and how we engage in social space - just like offline! Zeke: AW offers such an incredible number of possiblities for expression and interaction ... paulix: an it becomes a 'body' through our social interaction... :-) Rolu: I'm not a bird, I'm a cray-3 running an AI program... but don't tell anyone!! :-) Zeke: It seems to me ... that the avatar in it's current form has hardly been researched and developed !! taylor: hmm, interesting point paulix. paulix: let's not get too essentialist... Immigration Officer: Dr. Drs. Jan A.W. de Bruin of the Tilburg University will be appearing in the 'BOWorld' soon, for a discussion about the use of Virtual Worlds for providing information to future students Zeke: I don't think there is anything more personal to a person involved in VR than the avatar they are using ... Haba: I don't think the virtual body is very important yet. In this kin of conversation you just keep reading the text, not watching the 3d picture. taylor: the only thing i would suggest paulix is that we can't say it is just th social, but also the interaction with the possibilities laid out in advance of the users arrival "DrJanet": Has everyone died? Immigration Officer: When you enter AV98 click on BigBoard to teleport and see the schedule of speakers Mauz: hi DrJanet taylor: janet! nope. we are here :) Zeke: Hi Dr Janet !! Please join in !! taylor: janet, would you like to jump in with your presentation? E N Z O: JAnet can you please email me E N Z O: then I can call you E N Z O: and get you set up taylor: i think it'd be best to just keep janet here talking if we can Uldor: Janet must be having troubles :( E N Z O: or else just give your speech... :) taylor: by any chance, is reed here? Uldor: maybe she's WFS Little Cupid: lol - she must be cause she asked if we've died which means we're quiet to her? taylor: good point cupid Kilesa: click on the camera button if you want to see your avatar :) Zeke: hmmmm ... bad news taylor: someone earlier raised the point about the body not being really important here yet Uldor: this is a long time to be in WFS though taylor: and i think that is interesting because i confess i've been paying attention to the text mostly.. taylor: but for me that is more a product of this particular software and not the space itself Zeke: somebody tell Dr. Janet to "kill" her AW browser, and restart it ... that sometimes helps !! paulix: these 'bodies' jitter and fuss too much :-) OUT OF CONTROL Haba: I think voice chat makes the avatar more important taylor: for example, in a text-based world i can embody much more via gestures and emoting taylor: paulix Zeke: see you all later ... gotta go !! Little Cupid: Byeeeee Zeke! *waves* taylor: bye zeke Immigration Officer: Richard Wojcik of Boeing speaking in Pod 4 in 6 minutes paulix: but in text, that isn't in the code Zeke: good topic though !! *S* ... me poof ! taylor: hmm, i suppose given our abbreviated speaker list maybe we should wrap up early say 5 minutes or so taylor: sorry paulix? can you repeat Immigration Officer: When you enter AV98 click on BigBoard to teleport and see the schedule of speakers paulix: you example of text MUDs - the gesturing and body is in the language, not the code, eh? Uldor: the big appeal of this world to me is it's flexible avs Immigration Officer: The boeing speech by Richard Wojcik has been moved to the Boeing world Immigration Officer: When you enter AV98 click on BigBoard to teleport and see the schedule of speakers Haba: when it is silent, like now, it's nice to watch avatars and see what they are doing, though :) taylor: ah, i follow now paulix Little Cupid: LOL haba taylor: actually, player classes contain code that allows them to engage in speech and gesturs taylor: so, that is seen as a crucial component of any body in that space taylor: sorry, i was distracted by the offline event here i'm really working in split worlds taylor: paulix, did that clarify at all? i think not Little Cupid: y Little Cupid: Ooops paulix: i dn't know much abut MUDs... i don't disagree... just need examles and defns taylor: ah, gotcha taylor: well for example,t here is a certain range of functionality built into these avs taylor: and through that functionality, a range of embodiment possibilities to some degree Little Cupid: LOL - wb Uldor ;-))) Uldor: thanks :) paulix: true... but that functionality only comes to 'mean' something through social interaction. selda: yes, but don't users compensate with language? paulix: Avies keep looking at their watches, but we ignore it... taylor: yes, i agree with you to a very large degree paulix. the rooting in social is key Uldor: I pay more attention to the chat screen emotes than I do to the graphical behavior of the avs taylor: yeah,t he compensation question is fascinating. but is there a dissonance by doing in a graphical space? paulix: Uldor: if someone just enters GZ and starts waving no one will even pay attention to them until they actually type hello Little Cupid: So true Uldor! selda: true! taylor: ah, but that isn't the case in other spaces Mauz: you can harass people by moving your av on their face... :) paulix: aren't _Worlds Away's gesturing and actions more integrated into community life? taylor: if you are in a mud for example and gesture you are likely to be noticed. in much the same way as if you were offline Uldor: but that may be just because of the way the chat screen is arranged in this browser taylor: anad that is true for worlds away too... yep paulix :) Haba: aren't muds text based? taylor: good point uldor. this is where i think the design question profoundly affects interaction/embodiment taylor: yep, text based. but you can still gesture and emote Haba: yes, the point is... taylor: in fact, i find text-based spaces some of the most interesting Haba: the gesture and the text is in the same place taylor: right Haba: and that's not true in 3d worlds, mostly Uldor: the original beta version of this software only had the chat text above the avatars heads that forced ppl to pay more attention to the graphical enviroment taylor: i find this lower chat window split a bit difficult Uldor: but with just text above the avs head you miss what ppl say when you're not looking at them paulix: why do we not look at each other? Haba: the environment like Online traveler allow much more interaction with gestures, since ther is that voice chat paulix: why do we look to the 'I' in the text? Uldor: It's different in a more 2-d graphical environment cause ppl aren't spread all over the place taylor: in worldsaway for example the text is put above the avs which works better Haba: you don't have to move your eyes elsewhere to read something paulix: true taylor: right selda: In OnLive you don't have to read Haba: the text above head is also ver problematic in popular places Uldor: some ppl prefer the anonymity of just typing instead of talking though taylor: hmm, i agree its not ideal, but the lower one is tough for me. the way it gets blocked out Haba: well, yeah :) I wouldn't like to talk, I prefer text based conversation...mostly beacuse of language problems :) "PKSnoopy38": Hi taylor: onlive is interesting too int hat you only have heads. steve dipaulo (sp?) had some interesting things to say about that last year "PKSnoopy38": Hi "PKSnoopy38": Goodbye Haba: there are also some full bodies :) like the batman bird :) taylor: did anyone catch steves talk today btw? i went to the space but seemed to have missed it "PKSnoopy38": Goodbye paulix: and cars taylor: ah, good point :) "PKSnoopy38": Hi Uldor: I'm not too comfortable with the disembodied head look taylor: but it was interesting in that he discussed the tradeoffs between very expressive heads and full bodies with very lower end gesturing "PKSnoopy38": Goodbye taylor: why not uldor? Uldor: It destroys the realism, I'm use to seeing thing mirror real life taylor: ah taylor: kinda like kilesa being a bird there? Uldor: I can accept talking birds cause they're at least scaled to size taylor: ah Haba: heh... Haba: what about talking cars? taylor: well, it's a fascinating discussion. i appreciate everyone turning out for this session :) Uldor: not too much reality though, I would find that a bit dull, I don't want my av to bleed or get injured necessarily taylor: sorry we weren't able to have all our speakers here. i guess we have all just participated in a good experiment paulix: so the body shouldn't matter too much!!! taylor: i think i'll just leave the floor open now for general discussion for folks to follow up threads and chat :) taylor: and go to other talks! paulix: I'll belive the materiality when avatars form their own union...! taylor: paulix Uldor: thanks taylor, it was a wonderful discussion :) taylor: paulix, i'll have to make sure you send you a draft of that chapter and get your feedback ;) paulix: POWER to the oppressed avatars... shells for human personalities... rise up and break your chains! selda: thanks taylor: thanks for participating everyone! :) taylor: paulix: thanks to u Haba: thanks taylor taylor: see you all throughout the rest of the event! :) paulix: i felt a slight disjunction between my avatar and me there... it's letting go! paulix: ciao
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